Is this Beneteau Oceanis 411 worth it?

[jolly jack tar]

Hi folks,
I have been searching for a while now for a suitable cruising boat for short/singe handed sailing in SE Asia. I have not owned a Yacht before and have not sailed for a cpl of decades having sailed on lazers, wayfarers and a moody 33 in my teens and early 20's.

Ideally, I would like to get a 2006 or later Oceanis or a Sun Odyssey. I would prefer a boat that's had a single owner from new. I know there is a huge difference between these boats and a 1979 moody however, I intend to go on a few 2/3 week live-aboard courses on one or both of these models in the next 6 months.

I have found a nearby 2003 Oceanis which sounds perfect but the price seems very high at just shy of Euro 130K or $165K.
Its a single owner boat and is fully loaded with top quality equipment, its clean as a whistle and has just been anti-fouled last month, here is a cut n paste of the inventory:

Power:
Volvo D2-55 with twin 12V 60A alternators.
Electric oil change pump.
8 HP Tohatsu outboard (2006) for the tender
Triple solar panels, charge controller and 12V batteries
Wind Generator.

Construction:
Hull: grey epoxy primer and black antifouling, March 2014.
Deck stepped mast with rollerbearing cars
Boom with rod kicker.
The emerged zone has a blue Gelcoat was spray painted with 2 component AWL GRIP laquer in Corinthian Blue, two golden stripes & White waterpass, march 2014.
Pre-balanced rudder.The upper rudder bearing is above the waterline. No maintenance neccessary, always a dry bilge.
Three blade volvo folding propeller on shaft.
Roomy cockpit with folding tables on middle console.
Lewmar leather covered steering wheel with adapter for the Wind vane auto steering
Steering: chain and cables, no play.
Cockpit: Teak on floor, seats and big swimming platform.
Windsteering on plattform installed.
HF Antenna on isolated backstay.
The dinghy can be carried upside with outbord engine or upside down without the engine on the foredeck. Storm approved.
6 big cleats
9 sets of mooring lines. 6 with shock absorbers

Accom:
One forward and two aft cabins.
Two heads with hot and cold shower.
Reading lights on every bunk.
Hella fans and 12/220V outlets in every cabin.
Extra reading lights in saloon.
Red reading light on nav station for better night vision.
Warm white LED.
Extra fan on nav station

Equipment:
500 liter water in 2 tanks.
120 liter diesel in main tank.
180 liter diesel in jerry cans.
20 liter petrol for 8 HP Tohatsu outboard engine.
40 liter holding tank for toilets.
Watermaker: Echotec 30 ltr/h on 12 V. Runs on solar/windgenerator/engine
Fridge big: Isotherme SP TP 39051 watercooled ( no Pump neccessary .)
Freezer small: Isotherme also watercooled.
Stove: ENO 2 LPG burner with oven.
Grill: 1 MAGMA gas grill
Gas detector with alarm BEP Marine.
2 Gas bottles with regulator.
Sink: Double, stainless steel with covers.
Tap:Pressurized hot and cold water.
20 liter hot water boiler 220V or engine heat.
Foot pump for fresh or saltwater in galley.
Heater: Eberspaecher diesel hot air with thermostat and cabin outlets.
stern davits for dinghy.
Windlass: Eletric with remote control from cockpit.
Anchor chain wash pump with spiral cord and spray gun.
20 kg Buegel anchor with 60 meter 10 mm chain and 60 m line.
20 kg danforth with 30 m chain.
Grapnel stainless steel folding anchor for dinghy.
Spare blocks, shackles, lines and halyard.

Sails & spars:
Mast: Z-Spar aluminium
Boom Z-Spar aluminium
Sails: Full battened main with roller bearing cars.
Reefing from cockpit, no need to go to foredeck.
Furling Genoa with Sunbrella cpt.navi blue UV Cover. FACNOR Furling
Genacker 1.5 OZ
Red storm Jib
Dyneema halyards
Lazy bag Sunbrella, cpt. navi blue with zipper and lazy jacks.
Traveller on roller bearing cars, adjustable from cockpit.
Jib sheet leads adjustable from cockpit.
All sheets, halyards, reefing lines and preventer on 11 SPINLOCK XTS.
Lewmar winches: 2 selftailing 48
1 selftailing 40 on coachroof electric
1 selftailing 30 on coachroof
Dodger, bimini, side panels and stern shades all Sunbrella cpt. navi blue
AB Dinghy: aluminium floor, 3 chambers and Sunbrella cpt. navi blue cover

Nav:
Raymarine autopilot 6001+
Raymarine ST 1000+ tiller pilot
Raymarine wireless smart autopilot controller
Raymarine chart plotter RC 530+
Raymarine wind display ST 60+,speed, depth, log, water temperature.
Raymarine tridata system indicator in forward cabin.
Raymarine rudder angle indicator
Windpilot Pacific Autopilot with wheel adapter.
Garmin GPS 60 with computer connection ( tracks can be uploaded ).
Apple MINI computer with movable flatscreen.
Radar Furuno Marine Radar 1623
Cassen&plath German precision marine sextant
VHF with DSC, additional speaker in cockpit
HF with DSC, ICOM 802 with pactor modem for sailmail, grip files, weatherfax
Two ICOM IC-M 88 waterproof handheld VHF.
MRD 80 Navtex & all HF frequency receiver with printout

LSA:
Viking live raft for 6 people in canister on deck.
Life lines on port and starbord.
2 Rescue vests
1 lifevest
EPIRB global fix with build in GPS.
DSC on VHF and HF.
Flairs and rockets
Flair gun
High PWR searchlight
LED NAV and mooring light
Steaming and decklight halogen

If you got this far, thanks for reading. Now whats your opinion? is it way overpriced or does the full inventory make it worth it?

Thanks for your advice/constructive criticism,
Cheers,
JJT

[Alenka]

Some boats hold their price better than others. This is not a model I know so I cannot say whether I think it would be a good boat or not.

A quick look on 'Yachtmarket.com' would suggest it is certainly at the very top of end of the price range.

However, I would suggest you draw up a specification that you want on a boat and see how much it would cost to make each boat you look at meet that spec.

I have seen people get carried away with an equipment list and overlook the fact that the boat has been hammered. It will cost you more to have soft furnishings refurbished for example than to buy an electric winch, so for me buying one with a good interior is more important because fitting a winch or davits is easier.
Also if you buy a good basic boat cheap enough the equipment you add will be all new.

I went a thousand miles once to look at a boat that was perfect on paper but which I dismissed within ten minutes of setting foot on board! Digital camera make all boats look good.

Two things you need to bear in mind. As owners we all tend to overvalue our boats; And nobody pays the asking price!

Good Luck

[scotty c-m]

Compare this boat with prices of boats in the same area. I like to use YachtWorld.com. The inventory list of this boat is very impressive. If you want all the bells and whistles it could be a great boat. Sailing in that part of the world, a lot of that equiptment makes sense to me - but that is a very subjective opinion. It's a lot of boat for a newly returned boater. Make sure everything works.

[neilpride]

My partner in bussines have a Bene 50 4 cabins versión for around 150.000U$ in perfect condition, new rigging, sails, etc,, just for comparison....... i think its a 2005 ..

[jolly jack tar]

Originally Posted by Alenka

Digital camera make all boats look good

Thanks Alenka,
That's a great point and one I hadn't thought of.
I cannot post the photos here, just too many, but from what I can see from the housekeeping, book collection, nav station, the owner is fastidious, I will check out Yachtmarket to compare.

cheers,
JJT

[jolly jack tar]

Originally Posted by scotty c-m

Compare this boat with prices of boats in the same area. I like to use YachtWorld.com. The inventory list of this boat is very impressive. If you want all the bells and whistles it could be a great boat. Sailing in that part of the world, a lot of that equiptment makes sense to me - but that is a very subjective opinion. It's a lot of boat for a newly returned boater. Make sure everything works.

Thanks Scotty,
I will check YachtWorld and run some comparisons. I have not seen an inventory so impressive in several months of searching and it does seem to fit my criteria. You are correct though, it is a lot of boat for a returning sailor. Should I decide to go and see it, I will go over it with a fine tooth comb.

cheers,
JJT

[jolly jack tar]

Originally Posted by neilpride

My partner in bussines have a Bene 50 4 cabins versión for around 150.000U$ in perfect condition, new rigging, sails, etc,, just for comparison....... i think its a 2005 ..

Hi Neil,
Yes that makes this look well overpriced, I have looked at those but TBH they scare me a bit. Guess the owner of this Benny is thinking how much he has spent on extras etc and figuring his asking price based on that. I was thinking more like $100K for a 2003 but he will prolly make me walk the plank if I offer him that.
Thanks for the heads up,
cheers,
JJT

[beneteau-500]

Good boat the 411 but the asking price is too high have seen same spec boat around the med In past six months. between 78k to 95k euros and some of them too high in price

[Sacrebleu]

We have the exact same model and year. We bought ours with long term cruising in mind. We have found her easy to cruise short hand and good size space for living aboard. I am currently fitting ours out for long term cruising. The yacht you are looking is in the higher price range BUT you must consider ALL the additional equipment she comes with. For a 03’ Celebration model in the U.K. you would pay in the region of 70-80K GBP. However these will not have anywhere near the amount of equipment that you are been offered. The only questions I would have for the owner as I notice this is not mentioned are: 1.What are the engine hours? 2. Has the standing rigging been replaced? 3. Does it still have the original sails? Based on his response and provided all the equipment is in good working order my honest opinion I think that an offer in the region of 100K GBP would be reasonable. Don’t forget although we paid a fair price for ours I can assure you we have already spent 25K plus in fitting her out for long term cruising etc. If you would like any more information let me know and I will pm you my email address.

[Terra Nova]

Make a reasonable offer.

[MarkJ]

Make an unreasonable offer. You can always go up.

The price of boats is related to where they are. A french boat in Asia or Australia will be much higher than other places because a 411 costs $80,000 plus 15% of value for tax into Australia.

So it would be a good price in Australia.

Check local prices.

But the boat sounds like it has lots of stuff. Tiller pilot is a waste of money.. Obviously as a backup but it wouldnt be able to handle a big boat, i wouldnt think.

[Alenka]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Make an unreasonable offer. You can always go up.

The price of boats is related to where they are. A french boat in Asia or Australia will be much higher than other places because a 411 costs $80,000 plus 15% of value for tax into Australia.

So it would be a good price in Australia.

Check local prices.

But the boat sounds like it has lots of stuff. Tiller pilot is a waste of money.. Obviously as a backup but it wouldnt be able to handle a big boat, i wouldnt think.

A new French boat bought in France will attract around 23% Value Added Tax so sometimes it is cheaper to buy an exported boat elsewhere. Of course the cost of getting the boat 'elsewhere' might cancel this out. A Jeanneau 43 DS to spec you want or better will cost around €120,000 including VAT in Europe, In the USA where I doubt the tax will be anything like so high they still sell for around €20-30k more.

I know you wanted a one owner boat but have you thought about looking at a nearly new, ex-charter boat, from Sunsail!
They do look after their boats, they have bases in Aisia, and they do tend to sell at good prices. (they are still open to offers).

Where ever you go, and before you go, ask three imortant questions.

1. As the boat ever been sunk or flooded?

2. As the boat ever been grounded?

3. As the boat ever been damaged or in need of major repairs?

I know of one boat that sank to its decks, was refloated, refurbished and sold. The guy who bought her is oblivious to this fact!

[Prairie Chicken]

Lots of good info above, but I'd ask if you've been looking for some time, and IF you examine this boat & are satisfied it's right for you--make a reasonable offer. IF it's the right boat for you, and it looks like it has a lot of really good kit, it's worth paying the money.

[Alenka]

Originally Posted by Prairie Chicken

Lots of good info above, but I'd ask if you've been looking for some time, and IF you examine this boat & are satisfied it's right for you--make a reasonable offer. IF it's the right boat for you, and it looks like it has a lot of really good kit, it's worth paying the money.

Ditto to these sentiments.

[Polux]

The boat has lot's of equipment and as it was said prices of boats varies with the place. It seems an interesting boat. The question is it was lightly used or heavily? You can see this not only by the condition of the interior but also by how much hours has the engine (you don't say that).