Bavaria or Hunter Bashing

[avb3]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

From one Albertan to another my wife insisted we have a furling main although I have always had a distaste for them. I'm the guy that had mainsails with roaches so large the sail had to pushed past the backstay when tacking in lighter air but today I sail with a furling main. She can operate it without waking me up and she never has to go on deck and she would not have it any other way. I hate it when sailing in lighter air and I have never seen it flying with anything that approaches a decent shape but we are both happy. She got what she wanted and I got what I wanted..a happy wife!

There is no question that if momma ain't happy nobody's happy. That is a compromise that often needs to be made.

Where do you normally do your sailing? Currently I am in the Tampa area where I spend half the year rather than in that cold, cold weather that so many of my fellow Albertans are currently suffering through. I did the -30 thing this November, got stuck in my driveway and have done way too much snow shoveling over the years.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[colemj]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Try sailing a multihull. You get plenty of "experts" telling you you can't sail in blue water, can't sail to windward, (oh how I love passing those guys sailing higher and faster than them) your boat has an uncomfortable motion (so they've heard), is going to break up or capsize any second...

And yes there are people who'll say this to your face. They'll even get into their dinghy and come over to tell you how they wouldn't want to be on your boat "in a blow."

This has been our experience also. We have had people see our boat, come right up to us and start angrily telling us how dangerous catamarans are, how they know many people who have flipped theirs, how they would never be caught on one - not even on a dock, etc. As I ignore them, or calmly thank them for their opinion, they get even angrier and louder.

Mind-blowing, actually - but these people do exist in larger numbers and wider distributions than I would ever had imagined.

Mark

[boatman61]

I'm with Carsten on Bavaria's.. to me they are the 'Bayliners' of the sailing world.. the boat for the wanna be... kinda like the 125cc m/bike and the learner dreaming about the Kwaka 900...
Does the job... almost..
Not to keen on their interior designs either.. need to hire a French designer.. or Italian..
Hunters is a case of choosing the right years.. seems they've a history of take overs etc so have a variable quality.. can personally vouch for the Cherubini 37c... and the smaller Legend.. great cruising boats capable of voyaging oceans.. in the right hands.
Bene's are pretty cool.. solo'd an '87 321 across the Atlantic and a 2001 321 a few years later.. no more stressful than a Lagoon 440..
Every boat has its weakness.. just some have more than others..

[colemj]

Originally Posted by carstenb

Most production boats today are built with a furling main as standard - you have to order a non-furling

Is this really true? It seems like if building to a price, a furling main would be an option, not a standard.

Mark

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by colemj

Is this really true? It seems like if building to a price, a furling main would be an option, not a standard.

Mark

The mass market has switched to furling mains - it is no longer an issue amongst the weekend sailing crowd.

sorta like buying a car in the US - you have to order it special if you want a manual transmission.

[VinnyVincent]

Originally Posted by carstenb

sorta like buying a car in the US - you have to order it special if you want a manual transmission.

Also false

[SwissMocha]

Originally Posted by carstenb

In answer to the question : Why Bavaria bashing? a number of years ago (20?), Bavaria had some boats lose their keels (the Match series I believe). Bavaria stepped up to the plate - admitted they keel attachments were undersized, recalled the boats and fixed them.


carsten

On April 25th 2005 a Bavaria 42 Match lost the keel during a regatta in the Adriatic Sea, 5 crew members were saved, one died.
Subsequntly the builder acted clumsily in terms of communication and handling the issue, which resulted in considerable image problems.

Fact is, one single boat lost the keel and tragically one sailor lost his life.

As a result Bavaria recalled all Match series 42 and 35 and reinforced their keel sections. The Match series were later discontinued.

Up until today, Bavarias are the boats that loose their keels.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by colemj

This has been our experience also. We have had people see our boat, come right up to us and start angrily telling us how dangerous catamarans are, how they know many people who have flipped theirs, how they would never be caught on one - not even on a dock, etc. As I ignore them, or calmly thank them for their opinion, they get even angrier and louder.

Mind-blowing, actually - but these people do exist in larger numbers and wider distributions than I would ever had imagined.

Mark

I get the same crap....they'll be sitting on my boat enjoying a cocktail and tell me how they would never be on a catamaran in 'blue water'.....hilarious actually!

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by VinnyVincent

Also false

You might be right, seems allmost impossible to get a manual stick for US car..

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by VinnyVincent

Also false

except for a very few automobiles, it's not false. Most I bet a lot are not even available with a manual. A very few purpose built cars are only available with a manual, my wife's CTS-V could only be had with a manual 6 sp for the first couple of years, then the marketing dept. got what they wanted

On the boat thing, I think Boatie is spot on with his observations. All I'd add is nothing at all wrong with a Bayliner, they got a whole bunch of people into boating that may not have otherwise, and if they decided they loved it, and wanted more, then they moved onto a "better" boat, unless of course they decided like thousands of others have, that the Bayliner fit their needs and was all the boat they needed.
Insert other brands of boats with Bayliner, same thing.

But bashing a boat is stupid, they all have faults. People call IP's Island Piglets, and truth be known the Hunters etc. are out sailing and having fun in light winds, when I don't even bother to go out as I'd mostly just drift around, doesn't make them a better boat, just a better sailing boat in light winds.

Never had someone actually go out of their way to come over and bash, that has to be an envy thing, they can't afford your boat, so they have to come up with a reason to themselves why it's un-desirable. Don't know how I'd handle that, if they were as bad as you say they are Mark I'm afraid I may have to help them pull up alongside with my fishing gaff

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by colemj

Is this really true? It seems like if building to a price, a furling main would be an option, not a standard.

Mark

Yes, but they get OEM pricing, better if they agree to make something standard equipment, and the Sales guy's cry that they can't sell the boat without it.

I've got that going on right now where I work, sales keeps pushing to put a bunch of garbage on the aircraft as standard hoping to increase sales that way.

[Steve W]

My memory on the timeline is vague, but about 10 years ago, a mid to early '90's Hunter owner posted pics of a shroud/chain plate tie rod that had pulled out of the angle steel that it was bolted to. As I remember, the pics showed the angle steel glassed in under the settees and looked to be about 2" x 2" x 1/4". It turned out that Hunter had used mild steel angle to anchor the tie rods and salt water sloshing up from the bilge had caused it to corrode over time. The owner also posted pics of the repair, which consisted of replacing the angle with SS angle so it would not happen again. As with most internet issues, the uproar died out after a few weeks, so it probably was an isolated case. At the time, I wondered if all their boats of that design used mild steel angle or someone in the plant did a quick substitution in order to keep the manufacturing process on schedule and Hunter ended up being blamed for a bad design. I am a sales manager for a manufacturer of industrial machinery and it amazes me how often the shop workers don't follow the drawings and end up causing the company and the customer a lot of grief. It is so easy to ruin a good reputation and difficult to repair it.

[VinnyVincent]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

You might be right, seems allmost impossible to get a manual stick for US car..

You mean a car US BRAND car, or just car models available in the US?
There are a lot of economy cars available on the US market that come standard with a manual tranny on their base model and you have to pay extra for automatic.

Of course there are a lot more cars where it's the other way around and you pay extra for a manual tranny...but the statement "you can only get a manual tranny in the US by special order" is false.

As far as boats and the mainsail furling thing, I am not sure, but I could see where there could be a similar situation where entry level boats may come without it to make the price lower.

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Bene's are pretty cool.. solo'd an '87 321 across the Atlantic and a 2001 321 a few years later.. no more stressful than a Lagoon 440..

Maybe not for you, but it was pretty stressful for a few people on here at the time


When I was looking for a boat, I looked at a few Bavaria's and even chartered a B39 for a few days. What struck me most about it was the cheap and nasty cabinetry which in some cases was flimsy laminated metal doors around the nave table. The quality reminded me of the interior of an American car.

The charter skipper I was with was telling me stories of a Bavaria he was delivery flexing a lot.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Every boat has its weakness.. just some have more than others..

Very true. But, I guess it depends on who is stating the obvious...