Beneteau or Bavaria Old boats

[Dooglas]

There is absolutely no reason to restrict your search to Beneteau and Bavaria. Not that I am bad mouthing either one, but they are production boats. There are many other production boats of comparable quality. Others have listed several of them here. As Prairie Chicken said, the capabilities of a production boat will typically exceed the capabilities of its crew. Darned near any production 40+ sailboat in good condition is capable of going anywhere you are able to take it. I've done the inside passage through BC and SE Alaska. I've seen just about any boat you can imagine up there.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by richard45cdo

Good day,
a am a newbie to sailing, looking to move onto a boat with my fiancee and new born baby and start sailing the Med 2019 then over to Caribbean and Alaska.

i can only afford the beneteaus and Bavarias from 1995 - 2003, we want over 40 ft.

Any advice on what to look out for and what you would recommend. can the structure of this old boats be trusted for cruising etc... any tips and advice appreciated.

my budget is £85,000. thank you

By your own admittance you are new at this (sailing) as well as being a new father and not yet a husband...you are packing a lot of new lifetime experiences together, any one of which can be a trial. As someone who has 30-50+ years of experience in all of these areas I suggest you take it one step at a time starting with your fatherly responsibilities. During the limited free time that will be left over, learn more about sailing, bluewater cruising, and boat ownership (albeit related, they are different from one another, each with its own demons). Repost at a later date.

My congratulations and best wishes for your new family.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[Intrepid59]

For your location and price range, look at the Beneteau First 47.7.

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by Tricolor

Early 2000 we have owned a 49' Bavaria and crossed the Atlantic twice with her. A blue water boat, off course not but she was what we wanted that time. Any regrets, no.

Man, there's a lot of random Bavaria bashing going on in here. Nothing new for CF I guess

Beware of generalising from one model to another. I've only ever heard about smaller models, but then perhaps that's wrong too.

The Bavaria 46 and 49/50s I've seen from that era are built pretty tank-like. The inner liner of the cockpit locker on my boat is over half an inch, and the core we took from a thru-hull was over an inch and a half thick. The rudder tube is massive, and heavily reinforced. Every single piece of timber that touches the hull is thickly glassed in. All the Harken, Selden, and Rutgerson deck hardware is oversized and the butyl it's bedded in is still flexible 14 years on. The topsides shine and are extremely fair. Everything is very easy to access and view, and I keep coming across all sorts of clever access panels and design elements that make maintenance a breeze.

One of the most experienced marine surveyors in Auckland pronounced it one of the best built boats he'd ever inspected. "Vessel construction throughout is of a very good standard. Construction is structurally robust and well designed." He particularly noted that the glass layup showed very good technique.

Now, it's possible that the 49/50 models, being the flagships of the brand at that time, were built on a different line from other smaller budget models. The surveyor suggested that it was possible that their most experienced workers were training new employees while building these boats, being lower volume, and thus showing the correct techniques when laying them up. Or, since it was a large boat for Bavaria to build, they just wanted to make sure everything was comfortably strong enough. No idea.

The construction of this boat is certainly significantly better than the Westerly 41 we had built in the 1990s. That boat, although well designed, showed up that it was built by a few old men in a shed, not a proper production line with all the woodwork computer-cut and fitting perfectly.

By comparison, the similar sized and aged Beneteaus we looked at were much more tired. Fittings were tarnished, and the design inside was much more lightweight and not designed for offshore sailing -- far too many places where there was nothing to grab on to.

The only warning I'd give you for the larger Bavarias is that a great number went to charter -- there is a 5-cabin version of the 49 footer that is obviously a charter design, and the standard rig/engine/keel is very conservative (of course). If you get an owner's 3-cabin version with the optional taller rig, deep lead keel, and larger engine then you get a significantly better boat, and probably one treated a little better.

Anyway, what I'm saying is that you should check out and inspect each individual boat you are interested in, rather than applying generalisations from the internet. The one good thing resulting from the general hatred of Bavarias by the old-boat crowd is that they are extremely good value for money

[Alita49DS]

Originally Posted by SteveSadler

In the 95 Euro range you should have your pick of 8 year old charter boats in the Med up to 50'. I would be emailing every charter company for a list of boats for sale. They need to be gone in April when the new ones arrive so offer 35% less. A survey will find any problems.
We sailed our 49DS thru the Med only adding a dingy and solar. Everything was included and worked. Don't limit yourself by brands, most are well built, and have the same equipment.

I concur. Before our Jeanneau 49DS we had a Jeanneau 36.2 Both are well built and last. I should know. A friend now owns the latter. Before that I had a Maxi 77 for some 18 years and it was on that Swedish boat that things such as the locker lids went soggy.

There is a negative strain of snobbism about mass market boats that sometimes pervades this forum. As a litmus test, which is usually more reliable: a mass produced car or a bit of exotica? Which manufacturer has the resources for research and the volume to make incremental improvements?

[Zai]

I have to chime in on this thread too.
We bought a Bavaria new on 2011, had it in charter for 4.5 years.
Took it out of charter and outfitted it for liveaboatd/cruising.
I have been around boats all of my life. Worked on many different boats.
As someone has mentioned on this thread already, I find many smart solutions on the boat and have sailed in very tough conditions. I really like the way it handles and wouldn't be afraid to cross oceans.
By the way I have replaced my rudder bearings and they are Jefa roller bearings top and bottom. I find the rudder is quite robust (could be the newer models have improved).

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Idylles15.5

Bavaria should be off the list. It is basically the Chevy line of GM, not the Cadillac.

That's an insult to Chevy. I've suspected Bavarias were a joint operation between Lada and Ikea.

[gmakhs]

Bavaria cruiser 38 build 2002 , the stern of boat wash up on the dock during a storm , for the whole.storm the boat was stopped on her rudder and repeatedly hitting on the concrete wall .
The results you can see in the picture .

The rudder tube and rudder held well for the punishment they took , so even weak Bavaria's are not so bad as people say , but the boat design is not as well thought as I would wanted.

About Sweden yachts and halberh rassy , they are less spacious but verry well designed boats with cozzy interior and storage .

[gmakhs]

More pic

[pippatheskippa]

Originally Posted by Prairie Chicken

I would say that in the vast majority of cases, the boat will exceed the ability of the crew. People sail the world in mass production boats.

Having said that, we owned a 1986 Beneteau and it was rock strong & took good care of us for 21 years. I do not have such faith in Bavaria, with the exception of a very few models. They were the first company to build cheap with the intent of reaching a market otherwise unaffordable by most. They succeeded in that, and forced other manufacturers to reduce their quality.

I completely agree - we have a 1996 Beneteau Oceania 400 - it is in our sailing school fleet and gets bashed around by beginner students and is as strong as any other boat I have sailed (& that is quite a few&#128521

[Idylles15.5]

Originally Posted by gmakhs

Bavaria cruiser 38 build 2002 , the stern of boat wash up on the dock during a storm , for the whole.storm the boat was stopped on her rudder and repeatedly hitting on the concrete wall .
The results you can see in the picture .

The rudder tube and rudder held well for the punishment they took , so even weak Bavaria's are not so bad as people say , but the boat design is not as well thought as I would wanted.

About Sweden yachts and halberh rassy , they are less spacious but verry well designed boats with cozzy interior and storage .

I think your pulling a Jim Acosta with the border fence behind him. There is a huge hole in the bottom of the boat. Look how thin the glass layup is by the hole. Your proving my point. I have no skin in te boat game and I'm not selectively picking on Bavarias. I could care less what anyone owns. This is what I do. As for the other post where the gentleman mentioned the surveyor said it was a great build and layup? I wouldn't trust most surveyors as far as I could throw them. Especially if you are buying from out of state or the country. They know they'll never see you again and half the time have a deal going with the selling agent. I cant tell you how many boats I have worked on where the people are like " what do you mean the decks are waterlogged? The surveyor said it was all good. I also know some very reputable surveyors who I totally trust and have taken and passed all the courses and are certified. Take your time and check the history of your surveyor. The good ones know who the bad ones are. The word gets around.

[Idylles15.5]

Before I get bashed ( trust them as far as I can throw them ) lol Things get nasty on here quick. Everyone be nice. I'm just sharing my personal experience, not trying to start a fight.

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by Idylles15.5

Before I get bashed ( trust them as far as I can throw them ) lol Things get nasty on here quick. Everyone be nice. I'm just sharing my personal experience, not trying to start a fight.

Good that you clarified that In fact, you cast some serious doubt as to the qualifications of one of the best qualified surveyors in Auckland, who has dealt with everything from superyachts to Americas Cup boats, without knowing the first thing about him. Which reflects more on you than him, I'd suggest.

Try taking your own advice first before handing it out...

[SofiaB]

I’ve sailed on Bene 473 and 423. Owned Jeanneau SO and now a 2016 Bavaria Vision 46. Stiff boat. Great design and well sourced systems. I’ve also installed 4 IKEA kitchens and disagree the fixtures are anything like IKEA. If you like modern and bright you may like this design. Also very easy to single hand. Can’t comment on other boats as I haven’t owned them.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by gmakhs

About Sweden yachts and halberg Rassy , they are less spacious but verry well designed boats with cozzy interior and storage .

Perhaps, but I am not keen on all that dark joinery down below on the HR/Najad types, well built as they may be. Its just dark and gloomy. Also the prices are astonishing for the age of some yachts being advertised.

Cant' say I like the latest idea of sticking Ikea type fake wood interiors into a yacht either, they just look cheap.

There will be a yacht out there, just needs some research on yachtworld to narrow down the choice.

Pete