Bavaria Yachts....yay or nay?

[Dolphin460]

My personal opinion....I have sailed and owned mono’s for better than 60 years. Then in 2002 I retired and started looking for a boat to cross the Atlantic and rest in the Med. I ended up buying a new Dolphin 460 cat in 2007 and I am still living on her 9 to 10 months of the year. In my opinion, for me, I have the best Ocean going liveabord great sailing boat the I could afford. An equally priced monohull could never have given me the sailing ability and comfort that a cat can deliver; in my opinion. Go rent a cat one week and then switch to a monohull the next and then look for your new/used liveabord/cruising boat. Good luck and happy cruising.

[CbroTheDude]

Chartered a mid 2000s Bavaria 44, I can mostly remember the loud noise made by the aft bulkhead against the stairs when rolling at night, didn't get much sleep down under. Newer ones smell like glue. Pretty typical production boat otherwise

[Corsair 2]

I love my 2008 Bavaria 40. It is very seaworthy and handles a rough weather gale fairly well as seen in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUTEYa1yvfg&t=12s

My only regret is that it does not have an inner forestay -- which if you are going to do serious cruising, is really a must have. I am having one installed on mine. One final point: almost 90% of my sailing is done solo. It is a great boat for that. You can stay safely in the cockpit and put in and shake out reefs, as well as adjust the fairleads. In addition, once you use the German mainsheet system (can ease or sheet-in from either side), you will never go back to the standard sheeting system. To try it is to love it.

[Harlequin]

Small world!

I'm also Hong Kong based, also a pilot, also retired to the cruising life (sort of). I guess I'm just a few years ahead of you!

We bought a new Vision 44 in 2007, delivered & commissioned in Hong Kong (first Vision series in Asia, I believe). Since then we've sailed over 30,000 miles to SE Asia, Australia, New Zealand and the South Pacific. Presently back in NZ on our third visit.

As mentioned by others, there's a fair bit of work needs to go into any boat to make her ready for protracted offshore cruising. Not just factory production boats like Bavaria and Beneteau. And we've certainly discovered and addressed weaknesses in our boat during our 10 yrs & 30,000 nm - none of them major, though.

That said, we're very happy with our Vision. She's a lot of boat for her size (the interior is more like a 50-footer), she's fast (6 days NZ-Tonga and 6 days Fiji-NZ last year) and she didn't break the bank. Not sure I'd want to tot up all the $$$ spent since new, though, on things like equipping to Cat 1, liferaft, gen-set, watermaker, solar panels, SSB, AIS, Radar, inverter, aircon (which we seldom use), etc, etc. Bear all that in mind when you're costing the project.

I would probably recommend the Vision series rather than the Cruiser, as they have beefier rig, etc. If ex-charter, you'd want a proper survey done.

Why don't you PM me and I can add details where necessary.

Best of luck - you won't regret it!

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by couchsailor

...Understandably there are much better bluewater boats on the market, however, dropping half a million on a boat just isn't within our reach yet. ...

You certainly seem to have a grasp of the situation - seems like a good summing up, except I wonder whether older bluewater boats are really any more expensive than those stunning boat show beauties? I found the opposite to be true in the older 30-35' range.

[Zep]

Hi
Considering All boats are a compromise then you get a lot of boat in a Bavaria.
I sailed a 46' "2 Up" from Greece to Spain. Very nice roomy and comfortable in the more sheltered areas. Pushing her hard to Windward in boisterous conditions is like any boat hard going. There was obviously a lot of twisting going on as looking at the span of deck heaving up and down around 2 inches as she coped was interesting. She could slam really hard into waves and come off them with a big thump. In mast furler and furling Genoa made it all easy going for single handing one man watches in fact we were rarely on deck together except for changing watches. A great boat downwind as all boats are. Very short on tankage but that's not hard to fix. The rigging is the same as all the others so it comes down to the hull. After we docked I went over the hull, especially the span of around 3m of unsupported deck and found no stress marks (spider cracks) at all. She was well balanced, buoyant and well ballasted and her behaviour was predictable so that mix is good. I think it could be all about how much one wants to pay for their particular compromise. Newer is better of course.

Cheers

[Twhitt]

Happy to add my thoughts! We have two yachts, a Jeaneau Sun Odyssey 32 from 2004 in the UK, and a Bavaria 38 Holiday from 2000 in Northern Sardinia at moment, will be going to Greece next year

The Bavaria is one of the last of the well built generation of Bavarias, from what I can tell, before they went for lighter higher production volumes at a price.

We have found her very seaworthy, although have only sailed around the western med, France, Corsica and Sardinia. We have has a few slogs through the Bonifacio straights, in force 6 - 8 with quite big sea, quite a bit of slamming!

Although we had an engine issue, with loss of power, we think due to exhaust under water quite a bit, the boat always felt solid and safe. Inside there is lots of space, with solid wood everywhere, rather than later vaneer.

Sailing performance is very good, including furling main, compared to slab reef and stack pack on our SO32, which also feels to be much lighter build.

Dont know about the newer Bavarias, but there are plenty around!

Back to Sardinia in May

[Kerry1]

Have owned our BAV 38 cruiser for about 10 years now. The last 3 or so it has been lightly used, and only ever on coastal passages. When we were looking for our boat we met a Norwegian couple at Opua with a Bav 42. He was a service technician for Bavarias in his home country. Their enthusiasm and confidence in Bavarias after travelling half way round the world helped give us the confidence to buy one. We had always admired various Bavarias that we'd seen. Nice lines, I really like that there are very few hard corners on the boat. May seem a small thing but when you take that inevitable uncontrollable lurch and the boat brings you up short, corners take on a whole new meaning. Our boat doesn't look much different to when we first bought it, though I realize other commitments mean it has had relatively light use lately. Heavy use would of course change that. I find it delightful to sail and handle, but then my sample size is restricted to four yachts! Have chartered a Dufour, owned an H28, chartered a Neolex 25 and the Bav. Speaking with others who have sailed on ocean passages with them, they definitely flex, and can be noisy below deck as the video seen above amply demonstrates, though I think his sail trimming was contributing to the noise rather a lot. Having rather flat sections, the boat will pound coming off waves and so a comfortable angle to the wave set needs to be found upwind. We've been in some steep and largish seas with her and found it comfortable and dry, except on one trip out to Great Barrier Island when raining heavily and quite a mixed up seaway, on that occasion all the portlights leaked and in hindsight it was probably only the flexing and the course I had set. We have had no issues with them since. As others have said they are a lighter boat, designed primarily for the charter market, but having said that with some upgrading they do get used commonly for ocean passages. No doubt as the marque has evolved, some models prove better than others for ocean use. Just read on Bavaria forum how a couple of Bavaria's rounded the notorious Cape Horn. Admittedly practically anything can do this given benign conditions, but it still takes a deal of confidence in your boat to even consider it as conditions change so rapidly there. When we bought ours the broker stressed that we "sail it upright", in other words angle of heel is the determining factor for the amount of sail we carry and the course in relation to the conditions gives the best results. "Sail with the Seasons" is definitely great advice when contemplating the lighter found vessells. Though we all get caught in heavy weather sooner or later, so long as it is the exception rather than the rule, I think these boats have proven themselves. We took a guy out on our boat who had made Pacific crossings with the traditional full keel, heavy as, plodder sort of yacht which shall remain unnamed and he imagined ocean crossing with a Bavaria as akin to riding a surfboard, "it's fine fun for the first few hours, but when it goes for days on end it's no longer fun, and frankly exhausting." It was a bit galling when I remembered his own boat had no self steering or autopilot and they used a 3hr watch system and were shorthanded. When we were out in the bay menacing grey clouds built up and he insisted we drop all sails, to appease him we motored but it was obvious he thought the boat would fall over with the slightest breeze. Truth be told he'd never sailed in this sort of boat.

[Deltasailor]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Very popular German yachts. We chartered one, a 32ft 2005 version before buying a Moody to see if a yacht would suit our needs. It did, easy to drive and park even in a tight marina thanks to the fin keel and blade rudder. Sailed very well even in light winds and was very well mannered yacht. We nearly bought it but the cost was just beyond our budget.

To be honest I don't think you will go far wrong with any of the European yachts.

Pete

They were not built in Germany but in Sloviinia. Built to a price, with good deck gear rig ETC. but lacked attention to the finish that the French production yachts have.
Big boats built to a price.

[Nikki S]

never owned one myself, but know plenty of happy people that do - some that have sailed the world for 6 years with their 3 kids in a 39ft, others that are couples cruising the east coast of Aus. When we were looking to buy, we noticed the European production boats build before the GFC tended, in general, to have a slightly better build quality than the newer boats.

[BenFranklyn]

Hi Couchsailor,

A close friend of mine just purchased a new 51' Bavaria last year and although I have heard some of the earlier boats were decent, this new boat has been a horror. The first problem was water leaking into the bilge from the built in fresh water tanks. Next came diesel leaking into the bilge from the built in diesel tanks. the tanks are sealed under the floor with no way to access them other than cutting a hatch into the floor and to do that you would need to have detailed plans of the boat or risk doing even more damage. the sales company in England where it was purchased has been of no help and Bavaria has been dragging their feet in getting anyone out to see the boat. Its stranded in the Canary Islands as he was on his way to the Caribbean when the problem developed. Now he can't go back or forward and repairs need to be done in the island. He's furious and I can't blame him for that. If you find something cool and cheap and your not going to need factory support then maybe it will be ok. As for me I have sworn off cheap fiberglass boats there are just too many great older well made fiberglass and aluminum boats out there looking for homes to bother with them. Good luck in your search and keep safe.
Ben

[Kerry1]

Originally Posted by Deltasailor

They were not built in Germany but in Sloviinia. Built to a price, with good deck gear rig ETC. but lacked attention to the finish that the French production yachts have.
Big boats built to a price.

BAVARIA YACHTS – 100% MADE IN GERMANY

"BAVARIA YACHTS has been known since its founding as an innovation leader in serial yacht manufacturing. Over 1000 sailing yachts and motorboats are manufactured on the shipyard of BAVARIA YACHTS in Giebelstadt, near Würzburg"- Far as I know Würzburg is still in Germany.

[couchsailor]

Thanks for all the info guys! Its all really helpful.

There is some talk of us splurging on a 2006 Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 54DS, however, I think that's probably too much boat for the two of us. Unfortunately, this isn't an early retirement for us, just a mid-career break, so we'd have to also be able to onsell the boat either in Australia or Hong Kong when we are forced back to work.

[Want2cruz]

Originally Posted by Corsair 2

I love my 2008 Bavaria 40. It is very seaworthy and handles a rough weather gale fairly well as seen in this video:

My only regret is that it does not have an inner forestay -- which if you are going to do serious cruising, is really a must have. I am having one installed on mine. One final point: almost 90% of my sailing is done solo. It is a great boat for that. You can stay safely in the cockpit and put in and shake out reefs, as well as adjust the fairleads. In addition, once you use the German mainsheet system (can ease or sheet-in from either side), you will never go back to the standard sheeting system. To try it is to love it.

Patrick, I am glad I came across your post here. I've watched all your vids several times over, and am a HUGE fan of your style, your informative presentation etc.

Actually, because of your vids, I've been researching Bavaria yachts and came across several on Yachtworld that look very similar to yours. I especially like the dual helm layout since it gives you more room to move down the middle.

As you might have come across, there is a lot of negative press on the line, some cosmetic, some structural. Any additional comments or feedback on the line in general, and the model you have in particular.

Also, it would be great if you were to come out with more vids.

BTW, my shoes were "black", while yours were "brown".

In closing, I would say "Splice the Mainbrace"!!

[Want2cruz]

Originally Posted by Nikki S

never owned one myself, but know plenty of happy people that do - some that have sailed the world for 6 years with their 3 kids in a 39ft, others that are couples cruising the east coast of Aus. When we were looking to buy, we noticed the European production boats build before the GFC tended, in general, to have a slightly better build quality than the newer boats.

Can you explain what "GFC" means?