Stern tie spool for 32' pilothouse Pacific Northwest

[basssears]

Have read through what I could find searching the forum, thought I'd poll the assembled wisdom for whether I have a good plan for stern tie.

Back story is heading to the Gulf Islands this fall, looks like there are some spots that might call for stern tying to shore to minimize swinging. Boat is Gulf 32 full keel sailboat, pilothouse, 16,000# displacement, plenty of windage.

Based on what I've read I'm leaning towards getting two 300' spools for 3/8" floating polypropylene line (seems like two spools of 300' would be easier to manage than 1 spool of 600')... this stuff is only rated at 1400# - 1800# breaking strength though... presumably unless a long way away I would be doubling the line through a ring or around a (dead) tree so I'd get double the strength, still only 2400# - 3600# breaking strength, so conservatively 300# - 450# working strength.

Is this strong enough? I'm not going to be using it all that frequently (although Desolation is on the radar in a few years), hence just going ahead and getting 600' when 200'-300' would probably work in the places I've read about so far in the Gulfs).

Also, do most people just use the basic polypropylene rope like this:
https://www.fisheriessupply.com/cont...ed-rope-300075

... or do I have to pony up for Samson MFP or something like that (which means probably buying less to start with):
http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp...483&id=1811519

Other / better ideas? Should I go up in size?

Thanks in advance,

-- Bass

[Jd1]

My 2 cents ....
a) you want to be able to loop the line so you don't need to go to shore to leave.
b) I would prefer a continuous length rather than a knot in the middle that can hang up
BTW, a lot of the areas were you need to stern tie have rings attached in the rock but I would take some kind of tree protector as well.
c) I would never trust anything valuable to polypropylene as it can loose it's strength due to UV exposure VERY rapidly without you knowing exactly what it's status and strength is.

Lastly, I have had no issues anchoring except in some of the more popular places where stern tie is required. You can always find a quieter spot. (but I do carry a new spool of rope with me that has never been used, just in case ... I shudder to think what would happen if I used it and had to roll it up again .... I foresee a giant knot) I do not recall what material my spool is but it has never been exposed to any length of sunlight and I only carry it as a 'just in case' measure and not to be used on a regular basis.

200 ft of anchor rode and preferably 300 ft is very important up there as you can be 50 ft to shore and 100 ft down very easily

[basssears]

Originally Posted by Jd1

My 2 cents ....
b) I would prefer a continuous length rather than a knot in the middle that can hang up
BTW, a lot of the areas were you need to stern tie have rings attached in the rock but I would take some kind of tree protector as well.

The single roll makes sense for that reason, thanks.

Also am planning to take some 2" webbing for tree protection... of course then you're going back to shore to retrieve your line, or at the very least your webbing.

Originally Posted by Jd1

c) I would never trust anything valuable to polypropylene as it can loose it's strength due to UV exposure VERY rapidly without you knowing exactly what it's status and strength is.

I'm not a big polypropylene line fan either, but it's what's out there that floats, and I'm big into not fouling my prop so thinking floating line is best.

Originally Posted by Jd1

200 ft of anchor rode and preferably 300 ft is very important up there as you can be 50 ft to shore and 100 ft down very easily

Thanks. Have only been in the San Juans so far. Bow setup is going to be 100' of chain and 200' of nylon rode with 45# Mantus, so I'm hoping I'm pretty well set up up front. I have an okish stern anchor setup, although not very long, now just need to get the stern tie figured out.

Thanks for your 2 cents

[Jd1]

Originally Posted by basssears

Also am planning to take some 2" webbing for tree protection... of course then you're going back to shore to retrieve your line, or at the very least your webbing.

Ah ... there is a trick to that. I have never used the trick but let me see f I get this right.... your webbing has two stainless hoops on it through which the shore line leads. One hoop is generously sized, the other is a bit smaller. Your shore line goes through the smaller hoop, then through the larger hoop (with the tree obviously being in between) and then the shore line goes back to the boat. On the far end of the shore line, the line that just came back to the boat, install something that can easily slide through the bigger hoop of your webbing but can not slide through the smaller hoop.
The idea is (and it depends on the line not hanging up otherwise) that when you let go of the one end of the shore line, it will pass through the bigger hoop on the webbing thus freeing one end of the webbing but capturing the smaller hoop of the webbing thus retrieving the webbing for you with the remainder of the shore line.

I'm not a big polypropylene line fan either, but it's what's out there that floats, and I'm big into not fouling my prop so thinking floating line is best.

I agree on the floating line for sure ... but there is line that floats that is not poly and that is more UV resistant .... sorry I don't off hand recall the name.

Thanks. Have only been in the San Juans so far. Bow setup is going to be 100' of chain and 200' of nylon rode with 45# Mantus, so I'm hoping I'm pretty well set up up front. I have an okish stern anchor setup, although not very long, now just need to get the stern tie figured out.

That will serve you very well!

[Cheechako]

a flat type plastic hose reel works well, U bolted to the pulpit. Pull it out, reel it in! You don't need very heavy weight line. I doubt I ever had over 300 ft. If you need 600 ft you don't need a stern tie!
If you have a windlass I would def go all chain rode. Anchoring in 50 feet and having to try again due to rocky bottoms can get real tiring with handing the anchor without a windlass. If you are doing it by hand I wouldn't go more than maybe 25-30 feet of chain.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Jd1

My 2 cents ....
a) you want to be able to loop the line so you don't need to go to shore to leave.
b) I would prefer a continuous length rather than a knot in the middle that can hang up
BTW, a lot of the areas were you need to stern tie have rings attached in the rock but I would take some kind of tree protector as well.
c) I would never trust anything valuable to polypropylene as it can loose it's strength due to UV exposure VERY rapidly without you knowing exactly what it's status and strength is.

Lastly, I have had no issues anchoring except in some of the more popular places where stern tie is required. You can always find a quieter spot. (but I do carry a new spool of rope with me that has never been used, just in case ... I shudder to think what would happen if I used it and had to roll it up again .... I foresee a giant knot) I do not recall what material my spool is but it has never been exposed to any length of sunlight and I only carry it as a 'just in case' measure and not to be used on a regular basis.

200 ft of anchor rode and preferably 300 ft is very important up there as you can be 50 ft to shore and 100 ft down very easily

Good advice. I don't mind Poly in the PNW though. As long it's new, UV damage takes a while up there!

[basssears]

Originally Posted by Jd1

Ah ... there is a trick to that. I have never used the trick but let me see f I get this right.... your webbing has two stainless hoops on it through which the shore line leads. One hoop is generously sized, the other is a bit smaller. Your shore line goes through the smaller hoop, then through the larger hoop (with the tree obviously being in between) and then the shore line goes back to the boat. On the far end of the shore line, the line that just came back to the boat, install something that can easily slide through the bigger hoop of your webbing but can not slide through the smaller hoop.
The idea is (and it depends on the line not hanging up otherwise) that when you let go of the one end of the shore line, it will pass through the bigger hoop on the webbing thus freeing one end of the webbing but capturing the smaller hoop of the webbing thus retrieving the webbing for you with the remainder of the shore line.

I think this is just what you're describing:
Stern tying - Page 2 - SailNet Community

[Jd1]

Yes, exactly !

[Jd1]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I don't mind Poly in the PNW though. As long it's new, UV damage takes a while up there!

I am ok with NEW line as well but I would not trust it for any length of time unless it was always put in a dark place right after use. Even then, I might work with it ON OCCASION for one season but not any longer. IMHO that is the wrong place to save a few dollars.

As a side point, having good strong line on board is always a handy thing for a multitude of situations and should be carried together with duct tape and bailing wire!

[Cheechako]

I'm thinking ~ 3 years max. Depending how you store it.

[Jd1]

I hope you never get to find out how quick UV can damage poly. Keep in mind that it reduces the already light load rating from day one. Add to it some shore chafe and maybe a day when the wind picks up a bit and .....

Just not worth the risk IMHO when a few extra dollars can buy you a much stronger and less UV sensitive line.

[basssears]

Originally Posted by Jd1

I hope you never get to find out how quick UV can damage poly. Keep in mind that it reduces the already light load rating from day one. Add to it some shore chafe and maybe a day when the wind picks up a bit and .....

Just not worth the risk IMHO when a few extra dollars can buy you a much stronger and less UV sensitive line.

So what kind of line would you recommend? Just standard 3 strand, non floating?

[El Pinguino]

Not sure quite what conditions are like where you are however.....

I've been using the same bog standard 10mm 3 strand poly for 12 years now.... 2 full coils and two half coils, no appreciable chafe, no UV damage ( Patagonia is UV capital of the world btw) . 39 foot boat.

I never bring the tail back to the yacht but make a very long eye so you don't have to go ashore to retrieve.

First pic....yes two lines ashore plus anchor.
next.... ropes were 10 yo when this was taken in Tonga. I get through a lot of rope bags and am looking to change to laundry baskets.
Three ropes and anchor.....

[basssears]

Thanks for everyone's replies, keeps me thinking (sorry everyone has to see me think out loud... again )

I wonder if the Samson MFP Float Line does better as far as UV? Because it still floats which I guess isn't 100% critical but is nice, especially if you're idling in reverse to keep close to shore while someone else rows ashore.

But now I'm thinking better option might be plain old nylon 3 strand... for $200 I can get 300' of West Marine "premium" 1/2" 3 strand nylon (7500# breaking vs 5200# for the MFP Float) and it could also serve as my stern anchor rode (I have 30' of chain for stern anchor but only about 150' of 1/2" rode for it right now). I always like anything that can be used for more than one thing.

I wonder if I can get 300' of 1/2" 3 strand to coil into a 5 gallon bucket... pile the chain and anchor on top and done deal in the stern locker.

[El Pinguino]

You really do not want shore lines that don't float.....

The UV conditions I typically live with when out and about... Life under the hole in the sky - Salon.com
How much time are your lines going to spend deployed? Its not as if they are dock lines...

A half coil of 10mm doesn't take up a lot of room... half a vege bag ( bolsa para verduras).