Russian Ambassador in Turkey assasinated

[boatman61]

Tread carefully in Turkey folks.. the Islamisation of the LEA's and military under Erdogan seems to be getting out of hand.. the Russian Ambassador has been killed and three others shot by a serving young Turkish police officer at an Art Gallery..
US Embassy warning citizens to stay away.

[SV DestinyAscen]

It isn't Islamization.

Turkish people are more secular and Syrians are more secular than most of the middle east. The assassination has more to do with disagreement over Russian foreign policy of supporting Syrian regime.

The assassin didn't indiscriminately kill others or use a bomb. He shot the Russians then told the press and others to leave.

Not defending him and I feel sorry for the Russian diplomat who paid for his country. But this is political assassination...

[boatman61]

Secularism has in the main been put in prisons.. politicians, police and military.. and the press.. not forgetting who was buying ISIS oil and turning a blind eye to weapons going across in exchange.
But hey.. what do I know..

[SV DestinyAscen]

I've been watching turkey closely because I spent time there and in Syria about 40 years ago when we tolerated secular totalitarian regimes as long as they weren't soviet. As far as I know, the military police has been purged following the coup attempt, he only remained in power because of secular institutions that respected the electoral process. The leadership purges didn't and can't change the ground level people this quickly, turkeys military and police remains the stabilizing secular force.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen

I've been watching turkey closely because I spent time there a... The leadership purges didn't and can't change the ground level people this quickly, turkeys military and police remains the stabilizing secular force.

The ground level had been changing slowly on Turkey and it is hard to talk about secular when the main party, that I have no doubt will have the majority on the next elections, is a religion based party, the AKP.

Those purges had as objective to eliminate that secular forces that were centered in education (teachers), Judges and military personal, mostly high ranks and have been very effective.

Giving the places normally cruisers visit in Turkey is easy to have a false notion about the country. Look at this map, at yellow it is the zone were AKP won on the last elections. I bet that what you know is the red part

The yellow part is what is representative of Turkey today.

[SV DestinyAscen]

No we were in sinop and Antaka. Europeans generally view turkey differently. The secular forces were authoritarian and rough, but we got along just fine. Same as Syrians.

The assassin may have been an Islamic militant, but unlikely becsuse the Turkish security forces screens applicants. Yah hes Muslim but he killed a Russian - for perceived policies that in his view hurt civilians.

I don't see why he is automatically assumed to be an Islamic terrorists. It's like an IRA member is Catholic, but he isn't assassinating a British official because of Catholicmilitarism .

[transmitterdan]

To a few people there is no difference between political and religious issues. I suspect this assassination is one of those cases.

In any event, this is not a good thing for any of us...

[Dymaxion]

On CBC news the shooter was quoted as saying the Russians had done terrible things to people in Aleppo. It would appear the shooting was done on a humanitarian basis. Ironic, non?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen

No we were in sinop and Antaka. Europeans generally view turkey differently. The secular forces were authoritarian and rough, but we got along just fine. Same as Syrians.

The assassin may have been an Islamic militant, but unlikely becsuse the Turkish security forces screens applicants. Yah hes Muslim but he killed a Russian - for perceived policies that in his view hurt civilians.

I don't see why he is automatically assumed to be an Islamic terrorists. It's like an IRA member is Catholic, but he isn't assassinating a British official because of Catholicmilitarism .

Not assuming anything beyond policies/attitudes at the top can affect thought processes of the (certain) people down below..
Just saying.. be aware things change fast out there.
Regarding the IRA.. don't know about elsewhere but many over here perceived it as a Catholic vs Protestant thing.. each afraid of the other thus leading to violence.. bit like the Sunni vs Shia thing.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen

No we were in sinop and Antaka. Europeans generally view turkey differently. The secular forces were authoritarian and rough, but we got along just fine. Same as Syrians.

The assassin may have been an Islamic militant, but unlikely becsuse the Turkish security forces screens applicants. Yah hes Muslim but he killed a Russian - for perceived policies that in his view hurt civilians.

I don't see why he is automatically assumed to be an Islamic terrorists. It's like an IRA member is Catholic, but he isn't assassinating a British official because of Catholicmilitarism .

The assassin was a member of the Turkish police force that was there to protect the Russian ambassador.

I don't think that the Police force would put a radical doing the protection of an ambassadeur. Obviously he was an extremist religious but the point here is that not even the police can tell among themselves who are radicals or not. The policeman killed the Russian ambassador shooting at his back and yelling "ALLAH IS GREAT".

The purges were aimed to put out of the state sphere all that were secular and defended a western perspective of live.

They are now religious, or tend to be and the difference of a moderated religious and a fundamentalist religious can be a thin one. For some muslim there are no difference at all.

The real difference is between a secular state and a religious one. The memory of Ataturk is long gone.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by Polux

The assassin was a member of the Turkish police force that was there to protect the Russian ambassador.

I don't think that the Police force would put a radical doing the protection of an ambassadeur. Obviously he was an extremist religious but the point here is that not even the police can tell among themselves who are radicals or not. The policeman killed the Russian ambassador shooting at his back and yelling "ALLAH IS GREAT".

The purges were aimed to put out of the state sphere all that were secular and defended a western perspective of live.

They are now religious, or tend to be and the difference of a moderated religious and a fundamentalist religious can be a thin one. For some muslim there are no difference at all.

The real difference is between a secular state and a religious one. The memory of Ataturk is long gone.

Abbot Arnaud Amalric's famous saying at Beziers comes to mind.

[barnakiel]

I do not think he qualifies. Having friends who have nuclear submarines is not quite 'being a cruiser'.

Or is it?

b.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I do not think he qualifies. Having friends who have nuclear submarines is not quite 'being a cruiser'.

Or is it?

b.

Most people today forget or never know that WWI was started by a high level assassination in some dusty provincial town in the far away section of the Ottoman Empire. In that neck of the woods one never knows what may develop from seemingly unimportant to us event. Besides, in importance the Bosphorus and Dardanelles there are like Panama Canal here. IMO this assassination will trigger a new round of violence as Putin is very touchy where his ego and perception of power (or lack thereof) is concerned.

[crabcake]

IMO, Putin is not likely to forgive and forget. This after the Turks shot down a Soviet jet not long ago. I would be very careful where I was in Turkey if I were there.

[IdoraKeeper]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Secularism has in the main been put in prisons.. politicians, police and military.. and the press.. not forgetting who was buying ISIS oil and turning a blind eye to weapons going across in exchange.
But hey.. what do I know..

When the tanks roll, I have a spare room and can find you a slip next to Thor (alu, not steel)...you just need to run the Northwest Passage..bring the bike.