Matsutec HP-33A NMEA183 output AIS to Lowrance HDS Gen2 Touch Chartplotter

[Caroline Joan]

I am trying to connect my Matsutec HP-33A using NMEA183 to output AIS data to Lowrance HDS Gen2 Touch Chartplotter. I can see some threads on other Matsutec but not this one. I have never tried using NMEA183 so am not even sure how many wires are involved.
The options in Matsutec are:
Pin 4 = RD TXD which i take to be outputing data to interface to other hardware. There is no mention of using any other wires, but i would have thought 2 wires would be needed?
I have set output setting to AIS and bauds to 38400

On My Lowrance there are 4 wires in the NMEA 0183 cable plus shield ground.
My options:
Transmit A Yellow, Transmit B Blue - so none of theses apply
Receieve A Orange, B Green - So i chos4e Orange as i assume Green is for connecting a second device.

So it seems i just connect Matsutec Pin 4 (blue wire) to Lowrance Orange wire.

Nothing happens so there must be more to it. My Matsutec showed a ship 4nm away so something would be expected on my Lowrance. I entered my MMSI number into Lowrance and made sure the ALL Vessel s where tio be shown and not hidden.

Matsutec also has in its NMEA0183 cable Pins labeled FG (what is this i wonder?)
Pin 9 - External Buzz+
Pin 10 - External buzz -

I wonder if i also use these. Manual is short of info, and i have no idea.

Can anyone point me in correct direction.

[barnakiel]

Great you posted images to help. You know most people can read your mind fluently. Now that we have this sorted out, have a peek:

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...pscece97fe.png

http://support.navico.com/Images/HDS...20Diagrams.jpg

Are these correct interfaces? If not, post PLS the correct ones.

If the interfaces are correct, then one device is rs232 the other is rs422. One is a 3 wire signal the other is a 4 wire signal.

In 3 wire signal out you will use the Tx and the gnd. In the 4 wire signal you will use the NMEA rx+ and rx- wires. BUt do read on now.

At times people are successful wiring a 3 wire into 4 wire but it never worked for me. You will find info on how to try this by googling some.

Otherwise, it takes a small box called rs232 to 422 converter, google, amazon, wait and fit.

Eh?

Cheers,
barnakiel

[continuouswave]

NMEA-0183 interconnections are quite simple. It's just that the manufacturers make it difficult by failing to use the proper signal names and the standard wire colors.

MATSUTEC HP-33A device has the following signals

LISTENER A = Blue
LISTENER B = not provided

TALKER B = not provided
TALKER A = Green

For advice on how to make a NMEA-0183 connection, see my article

NMEA-0183 Interface Data Collection
NMEA-0183 Interface Data Collection - CONTINUOUSWAVE

This article will explain a simple, consistent, and easily understood method for making connections. It explains how to interface balanced and unbalanced signals in a simple and consistent manner. It also contains a great deal of information about various popular devices now available.

(I added the MATSUTEC HP-33A to the collection.)

You will find the information for the Lowrance HDS Gen-2 devices listed there. Note that there is an option for configuration of the interface into one or two ports on some of the models, depending on screen size.

Once you have made the physical layer connection, you need to configure the interfaces and select the data to be sent. For that information see another article

NMEA-0183 Interface: Signal Data Rate; Data to be Exchanged; TALKER ID
NMEA-0183 Interface: Signal Data Rate; Data to be Exchanged; TALKER ID - CONTINUOUSWAVE

[continuouswave]

Originally Posted by Caroline Joan

..what is this i wonder?..

Pin 9 - External Buzz+
Pin 10 - External buzz -

In the manual the signals are clearly identified as

9 PURPLE EXT BUZZER +Ve
10 GRAY EXT BUZZER -Ve

Those signals are probably intended to drive an external aural alert--sometimes known as a buzzer because of the nature of the sound created.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by continuouswave

(...)

MATSUTEC HP-33A device has the following signals

LISTENER A = Blue
LISTENER B = not provided

TALKER B = not provided
TALKER A = Green

(...)

Matsutec: brown (gnd) and green (Tx data). These two wires make a talker.
Lowerance Nmea Rx+ and Rx-. These two wires make a listener.

The two are not necessarily immediately connectable. They use different electrical interfaces.

It is not a nmea issue, it is a rs232 vs. rs422 issue.

There are walkarounds descibed online but they may work or may not work. They did not, for me. They may work for you. Mind the equipment is quite some $$ so think twice before experimenting.

There are rs 232 to rs422 adapters that do the job.

Let's not make the case too complex and listen to what the OP says.

b.

[continuouswave]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

It is not a nmea issue, it is a rs232 vs. rs422 issue.

Please see my comments about how the Lowrance HDS GEN-2 can be configured for two ports (RS-232 unbalanced) instead of one port (RS-422 balanced). This is explained in the linked article I mentioned and in the user manual.

There is a huge NMEA "issue"--the manufacturer failed to use the proper names for the signals, the proper wire color, and the proper electrical characteristics (balanced) for the signals. There are standard names and standard wire colors. If the manufacturer used that nomenclature and wire color the interface would be simplified.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by continuouswave

(...)

There is a huge NMEA "issue"--the manufacturer failed to use the proper names for the signals, the proper wire color, and the proper electrical characteristics (balanced) for the signals. There are standard names and standard wire colors. If the manufacturer used that nomenclature and wire color the interface would be simplified.

To me it does not matter what one manufacturer did or other. You want to blame all the rs232 / nmea signal manufacturers to be wrong? Sorry but you can go fight Garmin, Standard Horizon, Simrad and Raymarine as a minimum. For they all used at their time (and some still do) a 3 wire signal connection.

Let's not make the matter sound too complicated for lack of colours or names. The important data IS there. One side uses 3-wire signalling (gnd being common for in and out) the other side uses 4-wire signalling (in and out have their individual "-").

How others coped with the apparent challenge shown above. It did not work for me at devices level. But it may work with other equipment. It apparently worked for someone who posted the images.

If the hardwired tricks do not work, then there is the converter that matches 232 with 422. BTW be smart shopping as not all are bi-directional.

I hope OP can give us some feedback on what worked and how he connected the devices in the end.

Cheers,
b.

[Caroline Joan]

Hi the interfaces are correct. I have identified all the wires concerned but still can't get AIS to appear on Lowrance. I have however managed to get Lowrance and Matsutec to talk to my VHF so i now have GPS co-ordinates for DSC. So i know a bit more about NMEA0183. I may have to get convertor 232 to 422. Thanks for your help, i'll check what others have to say
Cheers C

[smac999]

if you are getting GPS to your VHF it's probably at 4800 baud. you'll probably need 2 plotter ports. one at 4800 for gps and one at 38,400 for AIS. but your plotter only has one. unless that AIS can multiplex

[Neptune's Gear]

as above, it will work if the connections are correct AND the BAUD rates on BOTH devices are correct. Depending on the Matsutec firmware version, the default speed may be 38400 or 115200.
When installing this type of gear I use a PC (Laptop with a USB - serial converter) and a program like Hyperterminal so I can actually SEE the output and therefore i'm CERTAIN the data is there (or not!) and that the speed is correct. There are too many possible issues to guess...

So, the Matsutec will work, IF the cables are right, AND the ports at both ends are setup correctly. Some devices need to be set so the NMEA IN port is switched on, as well as the right speed and NMEA 0183 version (normally 1.5 or 2) Its not rocket science.

[Caroline Joan]

Ok thanks. I'll try setting up computer once i get a suitable plug. Being able to see if data is there would be great. At the moment its just a bit of wire! 38400 is Matsutec baud rate for AIS.
I'll be in Rhodes Greece tomorrow so there will be plenty of targets appearing on AIS.
Cheers
Caroline

[barnakiel]

Yep. You want an rs232 to usb cable. There is also an rs422 to usb cable as well as cables that switch between these standrads.

The most common of the shelf cable is rs232 though - so just what you want to test on a computer (as said above use terminal window or OpenCPN connections window or any other method).

Should you get stuck, I have all the cables and interfaces onboard and I have access to a Matsutec. I do not have a Lowerance plotter though.

I can make local test for all the Matsutec side of the connection that is, if this is of any help to you.

Hugs,
b.

[continuouswave]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

...you can go fight Garmin, Standard Horizon, Simrad and Raymarine as a minimum.

I have no interest in "fighting" with the firms you mention. I will leave that for NMEA, the organization that promulgated the standard which those manufacturers have not followed

Marine electronic manufacturers are beginning to better conform to the NMEA standard. Many of the newer boat electronic devics use more standard NMEA-0183 conventions, including wire color and balanced signals, but for some odd reason still do not use the NMEA names for the their signals.

[continuouswave]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Yep. You want an rs232 to usb cable.

You will need more than a cable. You probably need a USB-to-serial adaptor. I have had very good results with the KEYSPAN USA-19-HS.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by continuouswave

You will need more than a cable. You probably need a USB-to-serial adaptor. I have had very good results with the KEYSPAN USA-19-HS.

+1!

And beware of some very very inexpensive Chinese brands - some were known to use chipsets that do not seem to fare too well in the new are of DRM.

I found cables bought directly from ftdi site to be very reliable.

Cheers,
b.