Pre-purchase survey Gemini 105Mc

[sopwith camel]

Hi all,

We have made an offer on a Gemini 105Mc. Survey and sea trial are next Wednesday. Does anyone have any advice about problematic areas we should pay more attention to? Thanks.

[Steve Martin]

Post your question to the Gemini owners forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gemini_Cats/messages

You can also search the archives there also.

[scotte]

While not specific to the Gemini, there's a few other threads around here on general things to check for during survey... Worth finding+looking through them, I think.

[caribnsol]

not gemini specific, but what I learned in my survey was to watch each system get operated and watch for any quirks or unusual operating procedures for later when you are doing it by yourself. I understand that a survey is not a "how to lesson for a new boat owner", but if it the surveyor has to scratch his head to make something work, you might have problems later.

Bill

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by sopwith camel

Hi all,

We have made an offer on a Gemini 105Mc.

Which one?

[amarinesurveyor]

Check these things that I have found on a number of the Gemini's that I've looked at:
Look for movement or shifting at the main bulkhead (the one below the mast and separating the main cabin from the forward cabin). It is most evident at the doors to the forward cabin and the head.
Check the foredeck for buckling upward, where the baby stay attaches just forward of the sloping windows in the forward cabin - the backing plate on the underside of the deck is not very big.
Check the chain plate attachment for the aft lower shrouds for cracking or signs of weakness. These are accessed behind the seat backs of the settee from the galley and the nav table.
Check the Sonic drive in the up and down positions and make sure it locks and unlocks easily.
Check the steering system to the rudders and the Sonic drive closely - this always seems a bit sloppy to me, but I guess it works.
Check the plywood bulkheads in the foredeck lockers for rot.
Be very very careful with the propane refrigeration and instant water heater if fitted.
And then check everything else that you would in any survey.
I just gave away all my secrets! Good luck in your purchase.
Brian

[Blue Skye]

I sailed a new Gemini from Annapolis down to the Keys about 5 years ago and had a great time. Got a little hairy in the rough stuff but for the most part an enjoyable boat.

There was a good thread with procedures here a while ago, check out:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...tion-2475.html

Congrats and good luck, I hope all goes smoothly.

[sopwith camel]

Hey...
Thanks for all the feedback. I've checked the Yahoo group and they have excellent information there and a very active owners group. Brian, how old were the boats that you found the those items on? The 3200, 3400, 105M or 105Mc? Do they run the whole spectrum of ages and makes? Thanks for your help. Skye, just curious, but how bad was the rough stuff and how hairy did it get?
Thanks so much for your help everyone!

[Blue Skye]

Well it was my first extended cruise aboard a cat and we were in the Outer Banks area. Forecast (as I recall) was @20k winds and 5-6ft seas. Weather wasn't bad but turned on us and it gathered to 30-40 knots w/50knot gust but the seas were confused and my inexperience didn't help the captain much. We took a good amount of water over the transoms a few times and the cat pounded really bad. At first I was excited (27 years old and borderline stupid) until I noticed the seriousness on the captains face and tone. We retreated to Albemarle Sound and it was actually worse in the sound, very steep and squarish waves. We did alot of surfing hitting 16-18knot speeds and slamming into the next wave. When we finally made it to the ditch(ICW) we both were relieved and eventually laughed about it.

When the weather was good and seas were mostly flat I was impressed with the little cats speed. Until that I had only sailed on monos mostly charter or day trips around SW Florida area.

[amarinesurveyor]

I'm not sure what model years they were, I was doing that off the top of my head. I don't think there were many changes in the ways they were built over the years.
Brian

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by amarinesurveyor

Check these things that I have found on a number of the Gemini's that I've looked at:
Look for movement or shifting at the main bulkhead (the one below the mast and separating the main cabin from the forward cabin). It is most evident at the doors to the forward cabin and the head.
Check the foredeck for buckling upward, where the baby stay attaches just forward of the sloping windows in the forward cabin - the backing plate on the underside of the deck is not very big.
Check the chain plate attachment for the aft lower shrouds for cracking or signs of weakness. These are accessed behind the seat backs of the settee from the galley and the nav table.
Check the Sonic drive in the up and down positions and make sure it locks and unlocks easily.
Check the steering system to the rudders and the Sonic drive closely - this always seems a bit sloppy to me, but I guess it works.
Check the plywood bulkheads in the foredeck lockers for rot.
Be very very careful with the propane refrigeration and instant water heater if fitted.
And then check everything else that you would in any survey.
I just gave away all my secrets! Good luck in your purchase.
Brian

Would any of those stop the purchase or just reduce the bid for repairs.

PS: I always thought the steering of the drive leg was goofy but like you said (and the salesmen), I works just fine. KISS.

[amarinesurveyor]

[quote=Therapy;147520]Would any of those stop the purchase or just reduce the bid for repairs.quote]
I guess it would depend on the extent of the findings, and if the buyer was ready to take on a project. It might also depend on if the seller was willing to fix it or negotiate the price down appropriately.
For instance: If there were some shifting of the main bulkhead, which is a structural bulkhead and transfers the loads of the mast to the hull, how much shifting do you accept as normal? How much more is it going to move without affecting the structural integrity of the boat? To try to correct this situation would be a major project and expense. Replacing part of a rotten bulkhead forward is a minor project comparatively speaking, but still could cost some money.
Some buyers are very willing to take on a project and others don't want to be bothered. I've had clients that were very happy that I found a lot of things wrong with the boat they were looking to buy, but when they realize that many (or all) of the items needed to be fixed so they could get insurance coverage, they weren't so happy.
In any case, it all depends on the buyer and the seller being will to work with each other to make the deals go through.
Brian

[Therapy]

I guess I should have known that was the answer.
Thanks.
I am one that would probably pass on the bulkhead one. And maybe the foredeck buckling. Hmmm.

Thanks.

[Little Otter]

check the daggerboard/keels for any sign of delaminating.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by sopwith camel

Hi all,

We have made an offer on a Gemini 105Mc. Survey and sea trial are next Wednesday. Does anyone have any advice about problematic areas we should pay more attention to? Thanks.

So, what was the result??