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tropicalescape · 30-07-2013, 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

I have a Hunter.

I love my Hunter.

I am also a new enough of a sailor to recognize the need for the combination of boat and skills.

IMO the Hunters I am familiar with are not designed for the worst that blue water can bring. However, Cape Horn can provide the worst that blue water can bring.

To me this is a potentially very dangerous situation. NO, critics -- SIT DOWN and clamp your hands over your mouths!!! -- I haven't been there. And no matter how good the sailor was I would not do it as crew *on a Hunter.* Even with the best weather window in the world.

Because I know that at least smaller Hunters (and 33' is small, for a Hunter, for this purpose), unless expertly managed, can magnify the problems that wind and rough seas can bring, and I haven't been in anything resembling the worst that Cape Horn can offer.

I think sailing around the world is an admirable dream, but am firmly opposed to doing it dangerously.

And by "dangerously," I mean "more dangerously than it needs to be." One of the things that would make it more dangerous than it needs to be would be having the wrong boat. It's going to be dangerous anyway -- isn't that part of the appeal, matching wits against so many real problems?

I suppose it is *possible* to make any decent-sized boat up to the task, but you still have a fin keel and an exposed rudder.

My boat is great for what I do, a happy compromise between live-aboard comfort and ability to leave the dock with the expectation that I will return alive.

But when the you-know-what hits the fan, you want a boat that can cooperate with your efforts -- not fight you.

I'm not going to opine on "what's the right boat" (and I will cheerfully ignore any aggressive or hostile responses to this post) -- but I'm right about this -- a Hunter isn't the boat for this trip for the great majority of sailors. And PLEASE -- read the story about the boat that went down on the rocks at Kinsale, in conditions that weren't nearly as bad as what one might encounter rounding either Africa or South America (just for starters). Engine failure was an important part of that accident and that had to be a hair-raising rescue for those young students.

rebel heart · 30-07-2013, 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElGatoGordo

Heck YEAH it's possible!!!! This guy did it in a 27 footer....actually he went around both N & S America.

Solo Around the America's Under Sail | An audacious attempt at sailing the Northwest Passage and circumnavigating entirety of both continents, to benefit Chesapeake Region Accessible Boating

But then that's HIM! The question is...can YOU round the Horn...in anything. Then you can pick a boat! But I suspect a troll...as many others do as well :-)

I'm very much on the "the sailor matters more than the boat" train, although a better boat will give you a lot more wiggle room and is more tolerant of mistakes.

That being said a 27 footer Albin Vega fits into the pocket cruiser space, up there with Nor Sea's and the such. I would definitely pick a ~30' Albin Vega or Nor Sea over a 50' Benateu, as an example.

Blue Crab · 07-10-2013, 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluetequila

Is it possible for my Hunter 33 to make it around Cape Horn and if possible what is the best way to do this....coastal sailing, etc.

Pfffft.

Let me rephrase: PFFFFT!

Why not start by reading of the folks who've done it or tried to. There are plenty of both. But very few of them here.

Rakuflames · 07-10-2013, 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

Pfffft.

Let me rephrase: PFFFFT!

Why not start by reading of the folks who've done it or tried to. There are plenty of both. But very few of them here.

Hunters in that size range are stoutly built, as someone else has pointed out. However, they are not bluewater boats. They are markedly bow tender. They're built to be fast, not to take on extended bouts with rugged seas.

While some of the stuff on that list may have been absurd, concerns about the rudder was not absurd.

bobconnie · 07-10-2013, 17:35

Ive never done this run, so can't really have a opinion on the boat chosen! And I really wonder how many of the posters have made this run ?? I did know a fella named Chuck Odehuff, who made this passage in a wooden 30 ft folkboat! So maybe yall can do it if ya watch the weather and wait out the blows at anchor! Thats what he did, took a heck of a long time as I remember! Met him in Brazil after his go around!! Hell of a sailor! Don't know where he went after that as he was still there when we left! 1980 something as I remember! But Im old and could be wrong

Rakuflames · 07-10-2013, 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobconnie

Ive never done this run, so can't really have a opinion on the boat chosen! And I really wonder how many of the posters have made this run ?? I did know a fella named Chuck Odehuff, who made this passage in a wooden 30 ft folkboat! So maybe yall can do it if ya watch the weather and wait out the blows at anchor! Thats what he did, took a heck of a long time as I remember! Met him in Brazil after his go around!! Hell of a sailor! Don't know where he went after that as he was still there when we left! 1980 something as I remember! But Im old and could be wrong

I don't always have to have tried something to have an opinion on whether or not it is wise. Hunters in that size range are quite bow tender. One could even call them a little over-responsive. They're a lot of things, but they're not a Folkboat. It sounds to me as if it would be pretty hard to be sure of a good weather window long enough to make it around.

I may well pick a good weather window one day and cross the Gulfstream ... but that's a much shorter sail.

I have a 31' Hunter. I'm not a Hunter-basher. But I think it only makes sense to be realistic about the tendencies of one's boat.

FranklinGray · 07-10-2013, 17:52

Oh yeah....sorry to hound on an old thread, but just wanted to add that I would trust a 376 over a 336 any day as it's twice as heavy, but I don't like the idea of taking MY 376 around. I'd do it in somebody else's, but not so sure I want to risk mine. If I did, I'd have to take everything off that wasn't for the boat and I didn't want to lose.

That being said because I was just talking to a friend, a woman believe it or not, that wants to sail around Cape Horn. I used to want to do it but I am not so sue I want to do it at all, on any boat, but if a good looking woman is pushing me, I have a feeling I would be going

So, I thought I would search google to see if any other Hunter went around Cape Horn which of course, led me to this thread.

The problem with the mid-90s Hunters is not the design, but the craftsmanship inside the boat (hull is fine). After owning mine since 2005 and doing 5,000 miles offshore in her including crossing the Gulf 3 times and the Caribbean sea once, I have finally fixed all the flaws that were done by the builder workers. No more creeky sounds on my boat....finally!

The deck is a little weak in some places where stress cracks will show up over time if you work her hard like I have, especially beating, but stress cracks are just signs of significant flexing as jell-coat doesn't flex but fiberglass does. The thing is, if any of you have ever played with fiberglass and tried to find the limits of flexing, you know it is extremely difficult to get fiberglass to crack due to flexing. Fiberglass is weak when it comes to hard impacts, but extremely strong in dealing with stress. That said, it's always better to not see stress cracks

The Hunter decks have a lot of holes in them...the big windows, ports and hatches which make life on the hook nice, but also weaken the deck. A Hunter that has been worked hard offshore will develop stress cracks around those holes. Also along the fareleads as well. Most of the deck flexing comes from the fact that the main is so huge and the boom about 18' but the traveler that bolts to the deck connects to the boom way to early giving all that main good leverage pulling up on it. It is the beating that causes the most stress on it. When beating the jib sheets are also putting a lot of stress on the fareleads as well.

But the thing I hate most about Hunters offshore is the hull shape. Of course, 90% of boats these days have the same problem, they just beat into waves very poorly. When the boat comes off the wave and smacks into the trough, the shape of the hull being how it is causes a bad meeting with the water. So don't plan on sailing offshore less than 60% true wind angle in anything over 15 knots true wind speed. This is why I do NOT recommend anybody taking modern sailboats, especially a Hunter East to West around the Horn. It's too rough on the boats.

So my advice, sure, take a Hunter around Cape Horn, just make sure it's not yours, that you aren't responsible for it being damaged or lost, that you have at least one EPRIB, a good offshore raft, a dry suit, a SAT Phone and a JSD made for the boat. That way we can read about somebody taking a Hunter around but you not having to pay for it with your life or money if it doesn't work out

Delancey · 07-10-2013, 18:19

HUNTER 33 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Sailboatlistings.com 08/23/13 Cherubini Hunter 33 for $10k
1977 Hunter Cherubini 33 sailboat for sale in Florida

Blue Crab · 07-10-2013, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by FranklinGray

I'm not taking a stand on whether anybody should take any boat anyplace, what I am taking a stand on is people talking about making changes to boats that they know nothing about. Understand?

Yes sir. I am smarter than I look. I'd almost have to be.

Rakuflames · 07-10-2013, 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

A husband and wife team did just sail around the Horn in a stock H45. Size doesn't matter, at least in this context... The only two problems they has were a broken sail hank and trouble with a windlass. It's the capability of the crew, not the boat, that makes the difference. Internet experts might disagree with that... but most sailors don't.

I say it's both -- the sailors AND the boat. Our little instructional 16.5' Catalinas can't handle 20 mph of wind.It's not about sailing skill. They can't be reefed and by that point, even with a couple of "stoutish" people on them, they're overpowered. If the wind is from the north -- and often it is here when it starts to get over 15 mph -- they're going to have a heckuva time getting back into the marina.

That's an extreme example, but all sailboats have limits. It may be that someone here has a sailboat for whom mother Nature never exceeds its limits, but I'm pretty sure that boat wouldn't be a 33' Hunter. The odds on that 33' increase not with experience but with skill (I know a 'village idiot' sailor who has been sailing for 40 years and a young couple who have learned a huge amount in four months. If I had to go with one of them, I'd pick the young couple because their instincts are so sound.)

Rakuflames · 07-10-2013, 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by s/v Beth

I have sailed a laser in some bigger winds (25 knots) and have pitch polled in the process. This thread is insane. I would not take a boat which is designed for coastal waters around cape Horn. You may get lucky but as ice stated- they loose a lot of sailboats down there...

Thank you.

The problem is that Hunter advertised its smaller boats (like my 31') as bluewater boats.

Well, it's not. It's a hoot and a holler to sail because really likes to go fast, and she "talks" to you in the way that a smaller boat can, helping you find the sweet spots. But that's what makes her wrong for blue (or treacherous) water -- she's just too tender.

She's really just right for me. I started sailing at 62. I'm single and don't have a sailing partner. I can sail her with friends, but I can single-hand her, and she can go anywhere I can reasonably expect to sail in what is left of my sailing life.

That doesn't include going around Cape Horn even if I hop-scotched all the way around the Gulf and down the coast of Mexico to South America.

Someone suggested her weight was OK. Again I would disagree. I have a friend with a 28' Cape Dory that weighs what my Hunter weighs. The Cape Dory has a full keel and a protected rudder. This one has a fin keel and a very exposed rudder. I don't want to be without a rudder in 20' seas and 40+ mph wind, and I wouldn't want to be having to replace the rudder in some way under those conditions either.

I would go so far as to wonder about the true sailing ability of anyone who wanted to use a smaller Hunter in that way, because it doesn't take much sailing to recognize these characteristics (I'm not going to call them "flaws," because those characteristics might be exactly what a person wants.)

Don't wear cut-offs to the prom -- just because they might not kick you out didn't make it a good decision -- and take a different boat around Cape Horn.

Rakuflames · 07-10-2013, 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising

Unfortunately, there are people who think that calling something insane is just an invitation to try it out. I happen to be one. What would be some suggested modifications to hull and rigging that might improve chances of success (I have a 376)?

Quite honestly, do you realize what you're asking of people here? You're putting your life in their hands and you don't even know them. IF you're going to take a Hunter of that size on a sail that may well put you in true peril -- at least find out what the boat's weaknesses are yourself, and take responsibility for compensating for them. I think this is part of what people mean by "it depends on the sailor." What if one of your modifications fails at a critical moment? You have to completely understand what went into that modification, what forces and stresses were on the failed part, etc., so you can make a temporary repair, probably in rough seas and a lot of wind, that will keep you safe.

Something may well snap in the rigging. Whether your mast comes down depends on what gave way, and to some extent why, how that has changes forces on the rest of the rigging and mast, and what you can do, probably in a big hurry, to make at least a temporary remedy. Lots of times, people use spare halyards if a shroud or stay gives way. Do you know how to do that? can you do that while riding out 25' waves that sometimes come from unpredictable directions? Can you do it knowing that if most of the waves are around 25' there is probably going to be a 40' wave at some time? Do you dare go up the mast to secure something in those circumstances?

How many of those things have you actually done? I can tell you how many I have -- NONE, although I know people who have faced those challenges. I couldn't begin to predict what your challenges would be. But I've sailed that size Hunter, and I know they dance on the water. They don't dig in and hold on -- they dance.