450: Lagoon Catamarans: Coppercoat with a primer: Yes or No?

[Stoertebeker]

I'm new to CF and this is my first post.
I have a Lagoon 450 and currently sail in the Mediterranean Sea. I'm considering using Coppercoat instead of my next antifouling. To be successful, according to the seller in Germany, it is important to adhere to the guidelines. The constant mixing of the copper with the epoxy is very important.
But no one can tell me if it really makes sense to apply a primer before the Coppercoat.

Do you have any experiences?
Do Lagoon catamarans all have a gelcoat?

Thanks in advance !

[billknny]

Oh, my the Coppercoat thread again.

Follow the manufacturer's instructions EXACTLY. Be very precise. If you don't understand what they are recommending, call them and ask. Don't use suggestions from an internet forum, call the manufacturer.

Performance of that product is VERY spotty. Some people are very happy with it, but others are not at all. I personally know of three boats that applied it. Two of them used appliers that were recommended by the manufacturer. All were so disappointed with the performance that they stripped it off and went back to standard paint within 2 years.

[Stoertebeker]

Thank you billknny!
That's a clear statement!
I have not read anything like that in a CF Coppercoat.

The more I read about it in the threads, the more uncertain I become

[Dtm67]

I don't agree with the statement "performance is spotty". All reports I've seen indicate properly applied copper coat performs well. The trick is using a reputable and competent applier. Coppercoat can recommend folks local to your area in the Med. I would contact them and ask your questions directly. They are very quick to respond.

I did a casual survey of "catamaran row" in the huge Cleopatra storage yard in Preveza Greece and it seemed like about half of the catamarans had the distinctive greenish color of copper coat. I have it as well, and am pleased with it six years in. The only thing different I would do is a few more extra coats where the bows pierce the water - I have a few square inches getting a bit thin that need touching up after thousands of miles.

[CatNewBee]

Copper coat does not mean 10 years sailing maintenance and growth free.

You have to be very careful with preparations for good results, strip down to gelcoat, sand a litlle coarse it to get a better grip, clean and degrease it and remove the wax with the alcohol (isopropanol) provided by the manufacturer before applying the copper coat. No priming or osmosis barrier between gel coat and copper coat necessary, but can be done.

You will get growth over time as on any other antifouling, but you can strip it easily, it starts with slime you can wipe away. We anchored for couple of days near a shellfish farm, and got some barnekels and shells on the hull, we could remove them easily with a plasic pan spatula.

We clean our hull 2 to 3 times per year by just wiping it under water with abrasive cloth and using the spatula for the few hard sea pocks.

If we see the necessity, we simply jump in the water and give it a scrub, for both hulls it takes about 2 hours for one person to get the job done on the 40ft cat. I use a plastic suction handle to get a grip on the hull with one hand and work my way around. Only the rudders and the bottom around the fin keels require a snorchelling and diving to get it cleaned, you do not need dive gear to do the cleaning.

The main advantage of copper coat is, you do not need to haul out every year and paint the hulls. But you have to clean it from time to time. If you need to haul out for other reason, get some copper coat with you to repair or refresh some spots, give the surface a light sanding or wipe it with abrasive cloth to expose some fresh copper.

Because it is epoxy and hard, you do not need to remove it if you decide one day to use soft antifouling, it can remain as an anti-osmosis barrier on the gelcoat.

We have ours now on the cat for 2 years sailing the Med, boat stays in the water, no haul out yet.

[Stoertebeker]

Thanks to CatNewBee and Dtm 67,
for the detailed and comprehensible answers.

Because I want to travel across the Atlantic to Guyana / Suriname with my Catamaran next year, the maintenance of my boat should be as easy as possible and without much effort.

That was the reason for me to think about Coppercoat and that the boat does not often have to be hauled out of the water.

I now realize that when Coppercoat is applied, I absolutely have to be present and I can not entrust it to the shipyard employees. There are just too many things I have to keep an eye on, which are responsible for a good result.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Dtm67

I don't agree with the statement "performance is spotty". All reports I've seen indicate properly applied copper coat performs well.

Then you haven't read enough reports.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

The main advantage of copper coat is, you do not need to haul out every year and paint the hulls.

I don't understand this statement. Assuming you do not have to haul for winter, why would anybody repaint annually? Typical copper-based anti fouling paints are designed to provide good performance for two or three times that long. And that is certainly our experience here in the States.

[sailing_gal]

I have coppercoat on my boat for 2 seasons now. When I hauled out to install a through-hull, all the yard had to do was pressure wash the bottom and it was perfectly clean. While out of the water, though, I slapped some more on the waterline. As others have said, proper application is essential, and it is not difficult. I did it myself with 2 friends, although I had the yard strip all the old paint off. It takes 3 people, one to mix and keep the copper in suspension while the other two apply all the coats, one after another. What the instructions for Copper Coat don't do well is tell you to make sure to make an awning of something over the paint so the dew does not damage it overnight. We used masking tape and packing peanuts, just enough to make a small ledge and keep dew from dripping down the paint. That is very important, it needs to dry for 3 days.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

I don't understand this statement. Assuming you do not have to haul for winter, why would anybody repaint annually? Typical copper-based anti fouling paints are designed to provide good performance for two or three times that long. And that is certainly our experience here in the States.

When using traditional abbresive antifouling, even if you stay in the water during the winter, you haul out once a year for a couple of days to clean, repaint the bottom and service the props and anodes.

With coppercoat you can do part of the maintenance in the water (changing anodes) or haul out only for a few hours for a wash down, maintenance and repairs. You can even use the tides to beach a cat and do the maintenance quickly without hauling out.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

When using traditional abbresive antifouling, even if you stay in the water during the winter, you haul out once a year for a couple of days to clean, repaint the bottom and service the props and anodes.

Not where I come from you don't.

[moseriw]

Please RTFM. Coppercoat is epoxy with pure copper in it. So grind until you have every remains of former paint off and then apply coppercoat wet in wet as the manual says.

[mikereed100]

Originally Posted by Stoertebeker

I now realize that when Coppercoat is applied, I absolutely have to be present and I can not entrust it to the shipyard employees. There are just too many things I have to keep an eye on, which are responsible for a good result.

This is wise and applies to any work done on the boat that you do not do yourself.

[Capt Jeff]

I applied the product two years ago. When I say “I” I mean I paid the bill. The requirements stipulated by the manufacturer must be followed exactly. This means you need someone to do the job who knows what they are doing. Anything short of this will give you horrible results. I still do the bottom every 6 weeks and there are still barnacles from time to time. Considering the time and costs I’m not sure I would do it again. APPLICATION IS EVERYTHING

[Jim Cate]

Do remember that different areas present very different fouling problems... different organisms and different rates of growth for them. Thus Copper Coat or any other antifouling material can have vastly differing results in different areas of the world, and sometimes the areas can be pretty close together and still have divergent issues.

This alone can be the origin of the contrasting reports of efficacy for CC. And when you add in vagaries of application, well, anecdotal evidence ain't worth much!

Jim