Helia 44: Anchor and Windlass

[Cotemar]

Helia 44 anchor setup with windlass & remote
Another large locker on the starboard side of the anchor locker

[Cotemar]

Here's a nice modification to help you take a mooring.
Add a few extra cleats to the cross beam.

[mndreamchaser1]

Looking for some guidance on the anchoring arrangement for the Helia. My questions:

-What is the best attachment method for the bridle to anchor chain? I am told (haven't seen it yet) my bridle has a snap shackle. Replace that with a simple hook?
-Do you use the bridle for rope rode too, and if so how do you attach the bridle to the rode? If not, do you just run the rode over the roller and let the anchor cleat take the load?
-For a mooring, how do you attach to the mooring. The cleats are outboard. Dealer told me to run the line to the mooring pennant over the forward roller, but that would seem to promote chafe on the roller. I see Cotemar's suggestion on adding cleats to the cross beam, but the dealer can't figure out how to add a backing plate inside. Suggestions?

New to catamarans, so I'm on my learning curve. Advice is appreciated.

[mndreamchaser1]

One more question. The boat came with 1/2" chain rode. Heavier than usual. In rode, heavy is ok, so long as the windlass can handle the weight. I don't have the specs or details on the windlass, but I am told it is now different than the earlier models. Thoughts? I'd like to figure out if this is too much for the windlass before I take her down island and have to change.

[motion30]

Can't see the need for a bridle on a nylon rode. there are several specific change the locks mantas makes a nice one seadog also makes one. I like the Mantas hook as it does not fall off

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by mndreamchaser1

Looking for some guidance on the anchoring arrangement for the Helia. My questions:

-What is the best attachment method for the bridle to anchor chain? I am told (haven't seen it yet) my bridle has a snap shackle. Replace that with a simple hook?
-Do you use the bridle for rope rode too, and if so how do you attach the bridle to the rode? If not, do you just run the rode over the roller and let the anchor cleat take the load?
-For a mooring, how do you attach to the mooring. The cleats are outboard. Dealer told me to run the line to the mooring pennant over the forward roller, but that would seem to promote chafe on the roller. I see Cotemar's suggestion on adding cleats to the cross beam, but the dealer can't figure out how to add a backing plate inside. Suggestions?

New to catamarans, so I'm on my learning curve. Advice is appreciated.

1) The best method for connecting a bridal to anchor chain is to use a soft shackle. You can buy them for $15 on ebay or make them yourself.
2) You normally have enough chain to allow the bridal to chain connections with a shackle.
3) Add cleats to your cross beam using SS through bolts with large SS washers.

[Rubikoop]

Originally Posted by mndreamchaser1

Looking for some guidance on the anchoring arrangement for the Helia. My questions: -What is the best attachment method for the bridle to anchor chain? I am told (haven't seen it yet) my bridle has a snap shackle. Replace that with a simple hook? -Do you use the bridle for rope rode too, and if so how do you attach the bridle to the rode? If not, do you just run the rode over the roller and let the anchor cleat take the load? -For a mooring, how do you attach to the mooring. The cleats are outboard. Dealer told me to run the line to the mooring pennant over the forward roller, but that would seem to promote chafe on the roller. I see Cotemar's suggestion on adding cleats to the cross beam, but the dealer can't figure out how to add a backing plate inside. Suggestions? New to catamarans, so I'm on my learning curve. Advice is appreciated.

I work for a charter company that has about a dozen FPs from 36' to 48' including 2 Helias currently and one more on the way. On all of the FPs we use a snap shackle attached to the bridle. I'm not aware of one ever failing. It's fast and easy. All of our boats carry all chain rodes. Unless you are intending to anchor frequently in really deep waters I wouldn't want a chain/line mixed rode other than to try and save some weight forward. For moorings we use two lines, one from each cleat thru the thimble or eye on the mooring painter back to the cleat the line started at to create a bridle. We run the lines outside all stanchions outboard of the hulls. I would not recommend running a mooring line over the anchor roller. I can't recommend adding cleats on the cross beam because I can't see a compelling reason to do so.

What dealer suggested you run the mooring line over the anchor roller? Bay Yachts?

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by Rubikoop

I can't recommend adding cleats on the cross beam because I can't see a compelling reason to do so.

Every Cat we ever chartered in the BVI has cleats on the cross beam.
Why, because they are so easy to use.

Using a mooring bridal to the side bow cleats is just a bad idea waiting for chaffing to happen at the worst time.

Life should not be that hard.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...tml#post338308

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...tml#post563357

[Rubikoop]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

Every Cat we ever chartered in the BVI has cleats on the cross beam. Why, because they are so easy to use. Using a mooring bridal to the side bow cleats is just a bad idea waiting for chaffing to happen at the worst time. Life should not be that hard. http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...tml#post338308 http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...tml#post563357

Did you charter a Helia in the BVI? Of the boats you chartered, was the cleat on the cross beam added later or did it come from the factory that way? People are welcome to drill holes in their boat and modify them anyway they want. If someone doesn't want to utilize the functional cleats that are installed where a naval architect designed them to be at the factory, that's fine too. I just don't get it, which is fine. Don't tell the hundreds of charter guests that successfully use the existing system every year that it doesn't work, ok? :-)

My observations on the fleet of cats that I've been around for the past 6 years don't indicate that chafing is an issue. Granted I'm around a small fleet of only a dozen so it's not like I have 300 to base my observations on. Could you explain what you meant by " just a bad idea waiting for chaffing to happen at the worst possible time", please? Have you witnessed the chaffing on a FP when connected to a mooring in the manner I described? I also don't know what you mean by "life should not be that hard". I don't see how making a mooring bridle on a cat is anymore difficult than a mono other than you have to walk a few feet farther since the boat is wider. If that's " too hard", that might be worthy of a new thread.

I glanced at the links you provided that seemed to be about Mahes. I think the OP was asking about a Helia. I would be glad to go back and look at your links if you told me what you wanted me to read. I'm on a smartphone and reading gobs of posts without knowing what I'm looking for sucks. Life should not be that hard. :-)

[Cotemar]

The images of cleats on the bow cross beam I posted are from a Helia 44 in charter in the Bahamas.

Go to any Moorings charter dock and you will see hundreds of cleats on the bow cross beams. They have been doing this for a while, so may have more experience than most outfits.

That post showing bow cleats on a Mahe 36 is from my boat. I was sick of the chaffing from your bridal method and the Chinese fire drill you have to go through to set it up in a hurry, so I did the same as what the Mooring fleet did. It does not get any easier than that.

[Rubikoop]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

The images of cleats on the bow cross beam I posted are from a Helia 44 in charter in the Bahamas. Go to any Moorings charter dock and you will see hundreds of cleats on the bow cross beams. They have been doing this for a while, so may have more experience than most outfits. That post showing bow cleats on a Mahe 36 is from my boat. I was sick of the chaffing from your bridal method and the Chinese fire drill you have to go through to set it up in a hurry, so I did the same as what the Mooring fleet did. It does not get any easier than that.

Where was the chaffing occurring that you had on your Mahe? Are you saying that gel coat was chaffing your mooring bridle? What are you using for bridle line and over what time frame did the chaffing of the line occur? Are you on the Evolution or an older Mahe? The bridal method that is our company policy isn't mine but thanks for wishing to give me credit. :-) I'm really struggling to appreciate your description of moving 4'-6' beyond the supplemental cleats you've added on your Mahe to get to the factory cleats as a "Chinese fire drill". Why is there a hurry to set up any mooring bridal, ever? Do you not know that you are approaching a mooring and you need to attach to it? Are you single handing? I've seen countless Leopard cats over the years, even jumped on a few to help folks that were a hazard to others while in a mooring field. The cleats on the cross beam are there because the forward cleats on the hull are so far aft that they can't really be utilized for a mooring. I think Voyage does the same thing for the same reason too. Sort of an apple and oranges comparison to a FP but I can play along. What other modifications have you made? What do you think of the depth of the anchor locker for a chain rode? How well are your sliding glass doors working? Have you rigged reefing lines back to the helm area so you don't have to go forward? Have you added some more cabin top winches? Have you added a system to your square top main so you don't have to hook and unhook the head of the sail to the car? If you have been so frustrated by cleat location that you added others, I would think the other items I just listed would have been fixed by you as well. :-)

[Cheechako]

I prefer the simple chain hook for the bridle to chain... makes it easy to retrieve... just pull up on the windlass and drop it off.
Regarding half inch chain... wow that s big!... but if the windlass gyspy is made for it the windlass must be able to carry it i would think.
OP: do you have any issues with the chain stacking up under the windlass and jamming? My cat was setup similar and it happened all the time until I got in the habit of pushing the tower over every now and then as I raised anchor.

[DotDun]

We have a second bridle for use with mooring balls. It's shorter than the anchor bridle and when not in use we just bring it over the front of the cross beam and clip it to the net.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

1) The best method for connecting a bridal to anchor chain is to use a soft shackle. You can buy them for $15 on ebay or make them yourself.
2) You normally have enough chain to allow the bridal to chain connections with a shackle.
3) Add cleats to your cross beam using SS through bolts with large SS washers.

I don't like the soft shackle on a chain, as the chain ages and rusts, the soft shackle would chafe pretty quick. Unless you're using a SS chain.

[boom23]

I have about 210 feet of chain and 200 feet rode on my 450. I use the bridle with the chain and rode.
For the chain, I use a Mantus hook (Mantus Chain Hook | MantusAnchors).
For the rode, I use a long continuous dyneema loop, or a long soft shackle, and the Prusik knot (Prusik Knot by Pro-Knot). Both ways work great!.