Can Cracked Toilet Base Be Fixed, Sealant Needed for Repair Kit?

[Gone2long]

Gang,

Am posting the below as a separate thread, as nobody yet has attempted answers to these two questions, and I don't want these critical issues to get "lost in the sauce".

Firstly, I have cracks in my Raritan PHII, toilet base and at the bottom of the pump housing. Have gooped them up big time w. marine epoxy, and I am wondering if anyone has tried, or has any faith in such a solution.

Also, have three repair kits, and none of them have suggested use of silicone sealant at any of the junctures, yet, past repairs indicate that sealant was used on the square, pump housing to base gasket, over the male, intake and outtake leads where hoses are attached, over the toilet bowl gasket, and over the male lead to the exit hose.

Is such use of sealent necessary to prevent leaks, was it used to ease on the hoses, or is it simply overkill?

G2L

[peghall]

"Repair kits" only include degradable parts in the pump...o-rings, seals, gaskets,none of which require ANY sealant, only lubrication. "Repair kits" don't repair damaged housings...any sealant used by previous owners was prob'ly Super Glue.

You need a new lower base assembly (PHIILBA)...save the repair kits to use according to directions every 5 years or so to maintain the pump.

[JPA Cate]

Gone2long,

Peg Hall's right. Out in the middle of the south Pacific, when the plastic bits broke, people would use things like Life Caulk and epoxy putty to macguyver things back to work, but in your situation, your PO did Mickey Mouse s**t to effect poor repairs. Now you have a chance to put it all to rights, and it should be fine.

Never have found it necessary to use any sealant for toilet connections. Double hose clamps is a good idea, and make them finish up so's you can get at the screws while kneeling there, no point in hiding them. Get good quality all s/s clamps.

Ann

[roverhi]

Raritan sells all the parts for a PHII. Not cheap but readily available. Figure out all the parts that you will need before piecemeal replacing parts. May be cheaper to buy a new head, btdt.

[hellosailor]

What's the base made of? Most materials can be mended, some cannot. I've had PC-7 (similar to MarineTex) holding a busted bakelite housing together for, gee, it might be 50 years now.

More to the point would be how you cracked the base. If it was mounted on an uneven surface and cracked because of that? It will keep cracking.

And gaskets are gaskets. Use whatever makes you happy with them, but when the equipment is professionally designed and built, doing what the manufacturer says is usually the way to go. Add gasket sealant to a gasket that is designed for a crush fit, and you can't possibly help it. Add the wrong kind of sealant, and you'll get a leak.

A head is just a bunch of fancy pipe. Ever see that Three Stooges movie where they get gushing water out of the chandelier? Just pipe.(G)

[a64pilot]

Pretty sure my PHII bases are PVC, and as that ages it get's brittle. I'm sure I could fix a crack with the correct glue, but I bet in heavy water with my mass sitting on it, it would break somewhere else,then I have a mess to deal with, in bad Wx. Unless insanely expensive, I'd replace it, easy job just four bolts holding the bowl on and if I remember correctly four more holding the base to the deck.

FWIW, I believe it was less money to convert my PHII's to "fresh heads" than it was to replace the pump assemblies. Not directly related to the base, but if your pumps plastic is in the same shape, might just consider replacing the whole head if parts add up like I think they might.

[peghall]

FWIW, I believe it was less money to convert my PHII's to "fresh heads" than it was to replace the pump assemblies.

You did replace the pump assemblies...you just replaced 'em with Fresh Head pump and base assemblies instead of new PH II assemblies. Whether converting to the Fresh Head makes sense depends on the availability of enough fresh water to spare some for toilet flushing.

Not directly related to the base, but if your pumps plastic is in the same shape, might just consider replacing the whole head if parts add up like I think they might.

Bowls don't wear out and it's not necessary to cobble up a list of parts to replace the pump and base, any more than you'd have to do that to "convert" to Fresh Head.. The "lower base assembly"--everything but the bowl, seat and lid) is considerably less expensive than the complete toilet...and because bowls are heavy, shipping is a lot less too.

Hopkins Carter is a dealer and "HopCar" is a sponsoring vendor here...He'll be glad to quote what you need.

[Gone2long]

Originally Posted by peghall

"Repair kits" only include degradable parts in the pump...o-rings, seals, gaskets,none of which require ANY sealant, only lubrication. "Repair kits" don't repair damaged housings...any sealant used by previous owners was prob'ly Super Glue.

You need a new lower base assembly (PHIILBA)...save the repair kits to use according to directions every 5 years or so to maintain the pump.

The repair kits were actually needed since there were leaks in the seals as well. I replaced most of the worn seals and plunger Oring, however, the neoprene washer that goes above the snap seal at the top of the pump housing (in my pre 1992 model Raritan) seems not to fit.

Any suggestions on that?

G2L

[Gone2long]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Gone2long,

Peg Hall's right. Out in the middle of the south Pacific, when the plastic bits broke, people would use things like Life Caulk and epoxy putty to macguyver things back to work, but in your situation, your PO did Mickey Mouse s**t to effect poor repairs. Now you have a chance to put it all to rights, and it should be fine.

Never have found it necessary to use any sealant for toilet connections. Double hose clamps is a good idea, and make them finish up so's you can get at the screws while kneeling there, no point in hiding them. Get good quality all s/s clamps.

Ann

On the opportunity to do it right this time around: "Well, probably not where I am right now" - see post down thread.



On the double hose clamps: good idea. I have seen them put on with one tightened in one direction, and the second hose tightened in the opposite direction. Seems like a good idea. Make sense to you?


On being able to get at the hoses: Yeah, a lesson learned the hard way replacing radiator hoses in my truck.

Thanks again,

G2L

[Gone2long]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

What's the base made of? Most materials can be mended, some cannot. I've had PC-7 (similar to MarineTex) holding a busted bakelite housing together for, gee, it might be 50 years now.

More to the point would be how you cracked the base. If it was mounted on an uneven surface and cracked because of that? It will keep cracking.

And gaskets are gaskets. Use whatever makes you happy with them, but when the equipment is professionally designed and built, doing what the manufacturer says is usually the way to go. Add gasket sealant to a gasket that is designed for a crush fit, and you can't possibly help it. Add the wrong kind of sealant, and you'll get a leak.

A head is just a bunch of fancy pipe. Ever see that Three Stooges movie where they get gushing water out of the chandelier? Just pipe.(G)

All points well taken. Really have no idea, though, exactly what the base is made of. It is some type of plastic, as the tube connecting the pump housing to the bowl has been joined using some type of cement that actually (in theory) melted the material together, the way one PVC cement works on plastic plumbing pipes. Most of this "weld" held well over the years as the leak is very minute. I gooped the heck out of it w. epoxy.

Not sure if the "weld" was an attempt at the repair of a previous crack or a way to get the toilet to fit in a narrower space. I should measure the base and compare it to the Raritan stats. But again, I have an older model toilet, so the stats may not apply.

The toilet base sits on plywood that is pretty old, so that could have caused the original weld to fail. Will probably replace it w. firmer stuff.

Problem w. getting a new toilet is that I am in the relative boonies of SE Asia. Will try re-installing the existing toilet with the marine epoxy fix, and if the possibility arises, buy a new toilet later, put it in a plastic bag, and use it to replace the old one if it eventually cracks again.

Thanks for your help,

G2L

[Gone2long]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Pretty sure my PHII bases are PVC, and as that ages it get's brittle. I'm sure I could fix a crack with the correct glue, but I bet in heavy water with my mass sitting on it, it would break somewhere else,then I have a mess to deal with, in bad Wx. Unless insanely expensive, I'd replace it, easy job just four bolts holding the bowl on and if I remember correctly four more holding the base to the deck.

FWIW, I believe it was less money to convert my PHII's to "fresh heads" than it was to replace the pump assemblies. Not directly related to the base, but if your pumps plastic is in the same shape, might just consider replacing the whole head if parts add up like I think they might.

Thanks for the advice, which is, no doubt, sound. Am going w. a temp fix now, something more reliable later. See post above - G2L

[Gone2long]

Originally Posted by peghall

FWIW, I believe it was less money to convert my PHII's to "fresh heads" than it was to replace the pump assemblies.

Bowls don't wear out and it's not necessary to cobble up a list of parts to replace the pump and base, any more than you'd have to do that to "convert" to Fresh Head.. The "lower base assembly"--everything but the bowl, seat and lid) is considerably less expensive than the complete toilet...and because bowls are heavy, shipping is a lot less too.

Hopkins Carter is a dealer and "HopCar" is a sponsoring vendor here...He'll be glad to quote what you need.

Can I take the above to mean you think that the hairline crack (which showed on the inside and outside of the pump housing til I gooped it) might hold, and the only one to worry about is the one on the base? See my original post, and the last couple of replies for more.

[peghall]

Originally Posted by Gone2long

Can I take the above to mean you think that the hairline crack (which showed on the inside and outside of the pump housing til I gooped it) might hold, and the only one to worry about is the one on the base? See my original post, and the last couple of replies for more.

Nope, you do not take it correctly...I do NOT think that. I was only pointing out that you that you don't need a complete toilet because you can re-use the bowl--which is the ONLY part of the toilet that isn't broken. You need to replace everything else (with the possible exception of the seat and lid, which we haven't discussed)...the part # for everything but the bowl is PHIILBA ("PH II Lower Base Assembly")...it includes a new pump.

We all know the saying, "if it ain't broke don't fix it"...your toilet IS broke...and the ONLY fix for a toilet with cracks in it is, replace every part of it that is cracked!

[Gone2long]

Originally Posted by Gone2long

Gang,

Am posting the below as a separate thread, as nobody yet has attempted answers to these two questions, and I don't want these critical issues to get "lost in the sauce".

Firstly, I have cracks in my Raritan PHII, toilet base and at the bottom of the pump housing. Have gooped them up big time w. marine epoxy, and I am wondering if anyone has tried, or has any faith in such a solution.

Also, have three repair kits, and none of them have suggested use of silicone sealant at any of the junctures, yet, past repairs indicate that sealant was used on the square, pump housing to base gasket, over the male, intake and outtake leads where hoses are attached, over the toilet bowl gasket, and over the male lead to the exit hose.

Is such use of sealent necessary to prevent leaks, was it used to ease on the hoses, or is it simply overkill?

G2L

Am updating this thread to note that the repaired toilet will go in soon, gooped up cracks and all. Hopefully, the repaired version will last at least until I can buy a new marine toilet base at a reasonable price from one of the suggested sources or from another source nearby.

Will keep everyone informed of the outcome.

Thanks to all for your hospitality and noteworthy advice.

Best regards,

G2L

[btrayfors]

Peg Hall is right: you need the entire lower assembly. And, you can buy it brand new for $220: Raritan Pump Assembly Complete F Phii Phiipump | eBay

I used this complete assembly about 3 years ago to revitalize my PH-II which needed repairs (following about 22 years of faithful service on my own boat, with only minor replacements during all that time).

There comes a point where it really doesn't make sense to play around with, e.g., adhesives, gaskets, etc. Buy a new assembly and save yourself a lot of headaches. And, keep the spare parts for, well, spares :-)

Bill