Hunter - Blue-water or not?

[sailorcherry]

I agree 100% with what boatman61 said. Very well put and funny too.

Look, you may want to consider taking a deep breath and really thinking about what you are saying before you hit the submit reply button. Based on your responses you are showing why you will be singlehanding. People who take the time out of their day to answer a very common question (like another person said - use the search button) asked by someone who probably doesn't have a ton of sailing experience and knowledge (no offense, just my observation) might want to take a more humble and less aggressive approach and response. Honey gets you bees, right?

Too often these days people jump online asking questions instead of first doing their own due diligence, by way of research or better yet - talking to real people in person, lol!

PS- I dare ya to take your question over to Sailing Anarchy!

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by Want2cruz

You have got to be kidding. Everyone, but you, understands that blue-water means long-distance offshore, where the water is deep and blue, NOT inshore where it is more green.

You should get over yourself a bit When a neophyte sailor asks these types of questions on a forum like this you are always going to get a variety of opinions. Some on the subject matter and others drifting off to never never land. It's your job to separate the wheat from the chaff and Do it with a

[Jim Cate]

Let me help you out.

First, however, I wholeheartedly agree with you that doing research by asking questions on this forum is an utter, complete and total waste of time and effort. In fact, I found it to be less-than-worthless.

OK, mate, if we collectively are wasting your time, why don't you just go away and stop wasting OUR time.

A number of pretty experienced sailors have tried to help you, asking nothing in return. You don't like what they said, so stop stirring the pot and go somewhere else and see what those folks say... Sailing Anarchy would be a good place to compare with we time wasters.

Jim

[Want2cruz]

Originally Posted by sailorcherry

I agree 100% with what boatman61 said. Very well put and funny too.

Look, you may want to consider taking a deep breath and really thinking about what you are saying before you hit the submit reply button. Based on your responses you are showing why you will be singlehanding. People who take the time out of their day to answer a very common question (like another person said - use the search button) asked by someone who probably doesn't have a ton of sailing experience and knowledge (no offense, just my observation) might want to take a more humble and less aggressive approach and response. Honey gets you bees, right?

Too often these days people jump online asking questions instead of first doing their own due diligence, by way of research or better yet - talking to real people in person, lol!

PS- I dare ya to take your question over to Sailing Anarchy!

I have spend many hours on forums of various types. While there are those that are helpful and address the issue at the bar, there are others who ride in on their high-horse attempting to score brownie points by condescending rather than helping by informing. I asked about boats, period. I came away feeling that I just committed a misdemeanor, or perhaps a level 3 felony based on some of the responses I received.

Asking questions IS my research. If people don't like answering questions THEY already know the answer to, in a polite and informative manner, they should just keep their keyboard SHUT.

Lack of experience in one area or another is NOT a crime or a faux pas. I have so much experience under my belt in many areas that I feel with a bit of singled-handed sailing in my boat (when I get it), I could handle it without problem. But some people feel they have to pick at the situation as if it were a scab. Do they not comprehend that the experience can't be gained until the proper boat is purchased. They don't care, they just want to flame people. to stroke their diminutive self-esteem.

I'll not visit any other forum, I'll do research in other ways, buy my boat based on my own instincts, practice, then make the passage and back, or on to Tahiti, and make it (Kraken attack notwithstanding). I'll send pics.

[Want2cruz]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

OK, mate, if we collectively are wasting your time, why don't you just go away and stop wasting OUR time.

A number of pretty experienced sailors have tried to help you, asking nothing in return. You don't like what they said, so stop stirring the pot and go somewhere else and see what those folks say... Sailing Anarchy would be a good place to compare with we time wasters.

Jim

YOU are the one wasting YOUR time by reading and responding. Nobody is forcing you to participate. You are welcome not to.

[john61ct]

To the OP.

Your original question does not have an objective answer.

You have been getting plenty of good accurate feedback from lots of knowledgeable people.

Best not to waste your time arguing with those whose answers are not in line with your needs, just ignore them.

By responding skilfully, asking more and more specific and objective questions as your own knowledge grows

rather than arguing over semantics

You will get increasingly valuable advice and info, rather than alienating those trying to help you.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

In my opinion Hunters are on par with other high production sailboats, including Beneteau/Bavaria etc. They may not be the strongest boat built but they are strong enough in most cases. I've seen them all over the world in our travels so they are definitely crossing oceans. Like all manufacturers some models are better than others so some serious due diligence is required to make an informed choice. In the lower latitudes being careful with weather there is no reason a Hunter won't get you there just as well as a Beneteau or similar boats. They all share very similar building techniques.

Originally Posted by contrail

Since you mention the Hunter 54 specifically, I believe you are thinking of the older Hunters. Several 54's have done some pretty serious sailing. The contemporaneous Cherubini designed Hunter line included a very stoutly built 37, which is cutter rigged and has a number of features that were ahead of its time. Quite a few of these did some really serious sailing, as well, probably more than the 54.

Originally Posted by boatman61

Loved the Cherubini 37c.. easy to solo and plenty roomy for one person.
The trend towards swept back spreaders however raises some doubts.. to me.. for their Ocean capabilities in strong weather.. looks flashy tho'..

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

One general way to think about the capabilities of a particular boat is to think about the design criteria when the boat was built (this is not necessarily how the boat is marketed). For example, my Hunter 31 is a relatively light boat, optimized for light winds (5-15 knots), upwind sailing and some weekend racing. It was marketed as a bluewater boat and has some desirable features (oversized rigging, for example) but it is far from what is considered a capable bluewater boat (HR and the like).

If you compare the Halberg-Rassy 312 to the Hunter 31 of the same era, you will find the HR to be heavier, D/L 321 vs. 231, with a bigger B/D ratio of 45% vs. 41%. Most other parameters are identical. So, you would expect the HR to be slower in light winds, not to point as well but be more comfortable in big seas. If you sail both, though, you will immediately notice the quality of the HR - it does not creak, it is smooth and relaxed, it feels secure. The Hunter can feel scary in big seas. Both boats will cross oceans OK but the comfort level will be dramatically different.

In your particular case, the H54 is an old, ocean racing design, limited production. It requires a large crew to be sailed well, it is narrow and cramped for a cruiser and it will be a maintenance headache. There is a reason why these boats are so cheap. There is no market for them as racing crews have moved on to better designs.

I think it is OK to take a racing inspired boat and use it as a cruiser, you just have to be aware of the trade-offs. It seems that you will be better served with a smaller boat, 31-37 feet as mentioned above that you maintain to a high standard. If you need the space, you need to go above 42 feet but that becomes a handful. Lastly, I want to caution you about the negatives of a bluewater design. If you want a boat in good shape you need to spend top dollar on it, $200-$300K. If you spend less, there is a high chance you will spend many months fixing the boat instead of sailing. Next, Water boats">blue water boats, especially older ones, do not sail well in light winds. 97% or more of your sailing will be in light to medium winds. You need to decide how important that is vs. the risk of having a very scary experience a couple of times a year when you get caught in a strong gale.

Pizzazz

Originally Posted by Want2cruz

Let me help you out.

First, however, I wholeheartedly agree with you that doing research by asking questions on this forum is an utter, complete and total waste of time and effort. In fact, I found it to be less-than-worthless.

Secondly, I didn't complain because the answers are not what I want to hear.

I complained because they are answers to questions/issues I didn't ask.

I asked about boats, various boats, aspects of boats, etc., - period. NOT me, or my experience, or lack thereof (which you assume).

I'll provide an analogy so you can wrap your brain around what I am referring to.

Suppose I ask you what time it is. You reply that it is partly cloudy, and then berate me over my lack of weather-forecasting experience.

Can you understand that, or do you need somebody to explain it to you?

Again, I reiterate what an utter waste of time and effort this forum is.

It seems that the only people who should ask questions on a forum such as this are ones who already know the answers.

I asked questions because I wanted to learn - to learn about what sort of boat would be suitable, and which would not be suitable, as well as other aspects that would be pertinent. I repeat TO LEARN.

Once I selected and purchased the boat, I would gain the experience I feel is required to supplement my already-considerable maritime experience, which includes a round-trip between NYC and London, ditto between HNL and SFO, both on powered craft.

Accordingly, I'll put you in my wake with no regrets whatsoever.

Woo Woo...!!! We have got our knickers in a twist haven't we.. eye's watering.???
How many pages on Hunters do you need before your satisfied or we earn a tick for what you consider and adequate answer.. here's a few from page one highlighted in red..
As to your considerable maritime experience... its seems to me that its as good as saying pushing a baby walker makes you capable for Formula 1.
Thousands of folks do those kind of trips on powered craft every year..
They're called Cruise Ships..
Enjoy soloing your 54ft Hunter.

[Want2cruz]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Woo Woo...!!! We have got our knickers in a twist haven't we.. eye's watering.???
How many pages on Hunters do you need before your satisfied or we earn a tick for what you consider and adequate answer.. here's a few from page one highlighted in red..
As to your considerable maritime experience... its seems to me that its as good as saying pushing a baby walker makes you capable for Formula 1.
Thousands of folks do those kind of trips on powered craft every year..
They're called Cruise Ships..
Enjoy soloing your 54ft Hunter.

Not interested in your opinion.

[Want2cruz]

Originally Posted by john61ct

To the OP.

Your original question does not have an objective answer.

You have been getting plenty of good accurate feedback from lots of knowledgeable people.

Best not to waste your time arguing with those whose answers are not in line with your needs, just ignore them.

By responding skilfully, asking more and more specific and objective questions as your own knowledge grows

rather than arguing over semantics

You will get increasingly valuable advice and info, rather than alienating those trying to help you.

I am NOT alienating those trying to help, I am alienating those trying to condescend. HUGE difference.

Those that have been helpful have been thanked.

[Doug4bass]

Crickets..........

[Jim Cate]

I am NOT alienating those trying to help

Oh really? You just might be surprised about this...

Jim

[windsweptms]

Partly sunny

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Want2cruz

You have got to be kidding. Everyone, but you, understands that blue-water means long-distance offshore, where the water is deep and blue, NOT inshore where it is more green.

Discussions of what constitutes Blue-Water isn’t just about the color and depth of the water and the distance from shore, there are implications about the waves you are likely to encounter and the weather you will experience there. The waves are fundamentally different off the continental shelf than on it. Proximity to land also affects the weather.

Originally Posted by Want2cruz

. . . .
Suppose I ask you what time it is. . .

And suppose somebody answers by asking you where you are? Do you understand that that question is pertinent to answering your question? Seemingly simple questions can have involved answers.

[scotty c-m]

WantToCruz, Most of the answers actually give interesting information about the questions you asked. I re-read the thread to get a feeling for this. Let's all try to keep on topic. (I'm now going off topic for a bit.....)

Somewhere in the 60's there were some snippy stuff, but that's not a big deal. In your responses, you fanned those fires by such stong responses. (ex: "I give up, This is pointless".) My Dad used to tell me, "Don't get into a pissing match with a skunk". I'm not trying to throw you under the bus, but trying to encourage you ...and others... to be a bit more chill! Think of the people who have given you really good information. Let's get back to that.

You may not have known, but the history of the internet cruising threads about "Are Hunters ..." have a long history. Some of the people who populate those threads seem to enjoy the notoriety of being antagonistic and argumentative. (a lot of people know this). To those of you who get off on this, I don't see the point of so much aggression.

One last point. If the topic goes off your original intent, that can be a good thing. Two examples are the discussion of the size of the boat, and the need for experience before setting off on a big trip like to Hawaii. I thought people made good comments about those ideas, and I believe you did also (based on your responses). At any rate, a bit of thread drift can be a good thing. Your asking questions can reshape the discussion into areas that you want it to go.

So, please don't think that you are inappriopriate for asking questions, or that others here think that you are. Keep on doing so. And the rest of us, I hope, have a desire to be helpful and informative. Keep those questions and ideas coming!

My next post will be back on topic!!

[scotty c-m]

You asked about Catalinas.

I would take my Catalina 400 to Hawaii. Like any other boat, I would be sure that it was in tip-top condition. I would also have all the appropriate gear. Now, that last phrase is open to a lot of interpretations, but some examples for me would upgrade: Life raft, AIS, rigging an inner-forestay and storm jib, a strut on the bow for the asymetrical spinnaker, new standing rigging, ok, new running rgging too, a bunch of spare parts ... I'm running out of things to add to the boat (oh yeah, a water maker). As you can tell by my list, I'm in that group of sailors that likes lots of stuff. My boat is already really well equipted. Some people would make the trip with a simpler level of gadgets. That's cool, but this is the stuff I like. Lots of room for individual opinions here.

So, Senor Cruz, yes, Catalinas could be a very good choice for you. I've sailed along the coast of California to Costa Rica for the last 66 years (I'm 69 now) so while my opinion might not work for everybody, they have worked for me. I've never crossed an ocean, but sister ships to my Catalina 400 have done so and more. They are fast and comfortable and safe - as much as a small sailboat can be. Those of you who have read my posts might recall that in my opinion, "oh Lord, thine ocean is so large, and my ship is so small..." makes all thought of comfort and safety to be rather a matter of perspective.

I like the size of the Catalina 400. Large enough to handle rather boisterous conditions, but small enough that the weights and loads can be handled by a single-hander. I've had the boat out in 30-40 knot winds, and 10 ft waves by myself, and while those conditions scare the sh.t out of me (I'm a scardy cat) the boat can handle it. I'm a reef-early kind of guy, and the Catalina 400 takes real good care of me. Senor Cruz, this might be a good boat for you.

Lots of good options out there for you. Here's my opinion: Find a good boat. Give it lots of attention. Get a bunch of experience before taking off on a big crossing.