Review of a Wharram Catamaran

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by captnandy

Yes, the cutter rig is very flexible. We have both a yankee and genoa with the staysail, so combinations of these with reefed main keep the boat well under control. She sails well with just staysail and double or triple reefed main.

The pahi designs do have dagger boards. I removed them as they were in poor condition when we bought her. They are used more for balancing the boat rather than windward ability (as stated in another post). I'm considering fitting an end-plate on the bottom of the V-hulls. There is some evidence that these improve upwind performance by stopping the water slipping directly under the hulls...... Anyone had experience with these?

Were these the unusual 4 dagger board arrangement or just the normal 2.

[captnandy]

Originally Posted by GrahamHO

I've had no experience with them but I imagine in rough water they might pump up and down and create drag. Also they would considerably increase the wetted area as they have 2 sides. I imagine they would be difficult to clean and anti foul too.
Perhaps the Pahi rig is more optimised more for reaching than pointing. Not a defect but just the way it's designed to match the hulls and the entire concept.
You could make a couple of radio controlled models with and without end plates. Cheaper than the real thing. It would be interesting to find out.

Yes, good points you make there regarding extra wetted surface area. The Wharram V hull shape is great for its simplicity so adding things to this is a bit beside the point, but a little extra pointing ability wouldn't go amiss! ;-) Your idea of making some models to test out is a good one, I just need to get all the r/c equipment to make it happen....

[captnandy]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Were these the unusual 4 dagger board arrangement or just the normal 2.

There were just 2. I think it is only on the Pahi 63 that there are 4 - it is so much longer and has the schooner rig, so 2 dagger boards in each hull should make balancing the boat possible under different sail combinations. I am considering re-fitting dagger boards to mine as I never removed the box construction - I think they would help for balance, not for pointing ability as they are too far forward.

[GrahamHO]

Originally Posted by captnandy

There were just 2. I think it is only on the Pahi 63 that there are 4 - it is so much longer and has the schooner rig, so 2 dagger boards in each hull should make balancing the boat possible under different sail combinations. I am considering re-fitting dagger boards to mine as I never removed the box construction - I think they would help for balance, not for pointing ability as they are too far forward.

If you point higher you will likely go slower and not get "there" any more quickly.
Even racing cats can't match good monos for pointing but they make up for it by going more quickly. A good outboard will take you to windward quickly. Wharram cats are originally designed to be safe with relatively low aspect sails. I see a Pahi moored when I cycle our waterfront and it appears to have an unusually tall mast for a Wharram. Low aspect is one reason the 63 is a schooner. Schooner rigs originated on the US East Coast where they reached up or down the coast as I understand.
I like the Wharram cats but life is too short to do all the things I would like.

[captnandy]

Originally Posted by GrahamHO

If you point higher you will likely go slower and not get "there" any more quickly.
Even racing cats can't match good monos for pointing but they make up for it by going more quickly. A good outboard will take you to windward quickly. Wharram cats are originally designed to be safe with relatively low aspect sails. I see a Pahi moored when I cycle our waterfront and it appears to have an unusually tall mast for a Wharram. Low aspect is one reason the 63 is a schooner. Schooner rigs originated on the US East Coast where they reached up or down the coast as I understand.
I like the Wharram cats but life is too short to do all the things I would like.

I've abandoned being a "sail only" purist - we use the outboards when needed! Sailing here in the archipelego routes tend to twist and turn sharply, so wind can be inconsistent or change direction suddenly, so often we use a motor to get us round some rock or island.
Yes, Wharram's philosophy is for low aspect rigs that are safe in all weathers. Schooner rig keeps the CofE low and allows flexibility in the sail plan. Looks good too.

[Teleman]

Cruising my back yard the last 3-4 weeks: A Tangaroa ketch, 2 Tiki 30s, and a Pahi 31 who's been coming here for at least the last 10 years.
For a few days they were all anchored in a line close to the beach.
Everybody on board looked relaxed and content with life.

[captnandy]

Originally Posted by Teleman

Everybody on board looked relaxed and content with life.

As you'd expect from Wharram sailors!

[Pai Loei]

Originally Posted by captnandy

Yes, the cutter rig is very flexible. We have both a yankee and genoa with the staysail, so combinations of these with reefed main keep the boat well under control. She sails well with just staysail and double or triple reefed main.

Hi captnandy, we owned a tiki 38 some years ago and we are interesting with the Pahi 42, living aboard with all stuff on tiki allow some performance around 10 knts in good weather conditions, also saw some video of tiki 38 at 16 knts in more extrem conditions.
Could you please tell me what we could expect from the pahi 42 in good weather conditions with the good sails ! in term of speed ?

[captnandy]

Originally Posted by Pai Loei

Hi captnandy, we owned a tiki 38 some years ago and we are interesting with the Pahi 42, living aboard with all stuff on tiki allow some performance around 10 knts in good weather conditions, also saw some video of tiki 38 at 16 knts in more extrem conditions.
Could you please tell me what we could expect from the pahi 42 in good weather conditions with the good sails ! in term of speed ?

Hi Pai Loei - we've has 14-15 knts on a beam reach in flat water, but I wouldn't recommend it for longer periods. We're quite happy to average around 7-8 knts in good conditions. I prefer to reduce sail and keep the boat fully under control than go for maximum speed. We're sailing with 3 kids and 3 big dogs so safety is our premium concern.

Our rig has a fully-battened main with conventional boom. It would be possible to have a bigger main with a larger roach to give more power, but I wanted to keep the backstay from the top of the mast. If I was starting again I'd probably go with a Wharram soft-wing mainsail and cutter rig, but I am very satisfied with our fully-battened main, as it is easy to handle in all wind conditions and reefs quickly.

Greetings, Andy

[Pai Loei]

Originally Posted by captnandy

Hi Pai Loei - we've has 14-15 knts on a beam reach in flat water, but I wouldn't recommend it for longer periods. We're quite happy to average around 7-8 knts in good conditions. I prefer to reduce sail and keep the boat fully under control than go for maximum speed. We're sailing with 3 kids and 3 big dogs so safety is our premium concern.

Our rig has a fully-battened main with conventional boom. It would be possible to have a bigger main with a larger roach to give more power, but I wanted to keep the backstay from the top of the mast. If I was starting again I'd probably go with a Wharram soft-wing mainsail and cutter rig, but I am very satisfied with our fully-battened main, as it is easy to handle in all wind conditions and reefs quickly.

Greetings, Andy

Hey Andy thanks for reply, of course i completely agree about safety, in opposite to you i sailed alone a lot so of course your first preoccupation is not speed ! but in another way in small winds it is always pleasant for the sailor and the boat as well to give some breath to the sails ! an average of 7 knts is what i am expecting of the 42' against the 38' so thanks for clarified this already
With the Pahi when i will found him my plan will be to use an furling geenaker on spinaker pole for best performance in single handle in small winds.
Cheers

[WharramMan]

Originally Posted by Fernao

I want to build because,

I would like to know though, if anyone on this forum has cruised in a wharram. I wanted to know how they sail.

Fernao

I have lived on, cruised, and built Wharrams. We are currently finishing a Tiki 38 and starting our Narai MKIV.

You wanted to know how they sail. Unfortunately, that is a relative question. How do they sail compared to what? Which design are you looking at building? They are all different and they have different attributes. Then compared with other multihulls, there are other sailing characteristics to consider when comparing.

If you can be more specific, I can probably help answer your question.

[Fernao]

Originally Posted by WharramMan

I have lived on, cruised, and built Wharrams. We are currently finishing a Tiki 38 and starting our Narai MKIV.

You wanted to know how they sail. Unfortunately, that is a relative question. How do they sail compared to what? Which design are you looking at building? They are all different and they have different attributes. Then compared with other multihulls, there are other sailing characteristics to consider when comparing.

If you can be more specific, I can probably help answer your question.

WharramMan:

I am looking at the the tiki 38. I am getting the study plans this week as a Christmas present to myself. I saw a youtube video of a tiki 38 crossing the atlantic. Pilgrim was her name. The skipper had two 9.8 outboards for auxiliary power.

What I would like is a stable comfortable boat.. The tiki has caught my eye.. It has that inexplainable element that attracts me to her. I just want to make sure that she is safe and stable.

Thanks!!!

[WharramMan]

Originally Posted by Fernao

WharramMan:

I am looking at the the tiki 38. I am getting the study plans this week as a Christmas present to myself. I saw a youtube video of a tiki 38 crossing the atlantic. Pilgrim was her name. The skipper had two 9.8 outboards for auxiliary power.

What I would like is a stable comfortable boat.. The tiki has caught my eye.. It has that inexplainable element that attracts me to her. I just want to make sure that she is safe and stable.

Thanks!!!

The Tiki 38 is plenty safe and stable. Wharram is best known for designing inherently safe, form stable catamarans. Only a person's poor building techniques or poor seamanship would render an unsafe Wharram.

I do highly suggest that you find a Tiki 38 in your area to visit before building one.

Expect building time to take closer to 4000 hours. Take a look at the blog A Cat Named Dog. A tiki 38 catamaran, and her fools. for a "different" perspective on building a Tiki 38.

[HappyMdRSailor]

Welcome to CF WharramMan !

[boatsmith]

Most people are not ambivalent about Wharrams. You either like them or not. If you like them then there is a large range of their designs built by many different people with widely varying building abilities and vastly different budgets. Some are very rough and don't sail very fast or tack well or go to weather well. Others are different. JWD does favor low aspect small/moderate rigs. These are very relatively easy to handle and more forgiving.
Here is our most recent effort. The hardtop allows hull to hull access out of the rain. Eisenglass windsheilds block spray when it's honkin. The modern rig with high quality sails and carbon daggerboards make it go to weather quite well. It is very comfortable and tacks very well. At 6 knots the range is over 600 nm.
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