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Old 08-10-2019, 15:16   #1
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Jackline tether question

Hi,
I daysail and want to rig a MOB prevention system in order to sail solo and for other safety reasons. I have a small boat, Catalina 25. Iíve been doing some research and it seems that webbing is used over rope in order not to confuse a jackline for running rigging or roll on it underfoot. Using 4500 lb climbing rope instead seems appealing to me for several reasons:
- as a daysailor I will be setting the jacklines up and stowing them before and after a sail to avoid it damage and wear and tear. This seems easier to me to do with rope than with webbing.
- I would need to sew a loop onto the webbing whereas a rope can be cut to length and tied to fixed pad eyes.
-The length of runs for my small boat are short, around 6ft and out of the way of where I need to step to move around. They would create a Y from stem fitting to mast and from mast to either side of cabin top. I would rig fixed clip on points at mast and bow where and work would probably be done.

Do you see any problem with this setup?

As for tethers:
I have a proper sailing harness.
Would the appropriate climbing rope in combination with sailing grade harness carabiners be a bad idea? While the last thing I want to skimp on money wise is a safety rig like this, but as a plus the cost difference between the two is significant. The climbing rope also would be customizable as far as length goes. The double tethers Iíve seen are 3 and 6 ft.

Thanks in advance
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Old 08-10-2019, 16:17   #2
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Re: Jackline tether question

Welcome to the forum.
Without doubt someone'll post shortly to tell you how/why you shouldn't and mustn't ever use lengths of climbing rope for the jack-stays, indeed I'm not saying that they're wrong or that it's the 'right' thing to do.
However, on two yachts, over fifteen years, two oceans and perhaps 50,000 sea miles, they're what we've used and as we're still here to post this comment, I guess the idea can't be too life-threatening.
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Old 08-10-2019, 16:53   #3
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Re: Jackline tether question

Thinwater here (a climber and sailor) will suggest that dynamic climbing line is exactly the right thing to use for the tethers.

I agree with him on the technical merits, but my take is that the right thing to use is first and foremost the one you will, in fact, carry and use. I personally found climbing line a bit bulky and instead personally use dyneema single braid - which when you take the terminations into account is a ton smaller/less bulky/easier to stuff in pockets - so I in fact always have it with me when I need it. It IS way way less shock-absorbing than dynamic climbing line and that is a problem for fall protection, but my personal experience has been that a classic fall factor 1 is not really much of an issue for climbing tethers - others will disagree, and my Dyneema will NOT pass the ISO test spec, but I do have it with me always.

for the jacklines . . . two comments - #1 you are really better off clipped short to hard points near your work stations. If you don't want to install padeyes you can usually quite easily and cheaply put dyneema loops in to clip to. #2 dyneema climbing rope is a less good choice for jacklines (and Thinwater will I believe agree with this). You really don't want excessive stretch there - which might allow you to go overboard. Polyester would be better - a rope (vs webbing) is still fine as you are aware of and ok with the rolling under foot and mix-up with sailing line issues.

Single handing - you really really want to make sure your set-up will not ever let you go over the side. That is hard to do with the classic side deck jackline design. Centerline or inboard jacklines are a bit better - workstation hard points with real short tethers is even better
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Old 08-10-2019, 18:24   #4
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Re: Jackline tether question

Thanks for the info. Also if anyone has any recommendations on snaphooks Iíd appreciate it. It seems as though there are a lot of horror stories and deaths blamed on faulty designs
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Old 08-10-2019, 18:33   #5
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Re: Jackline tether question

The Kong hooks are pretty good

https://www.kong.it/en/2-products/it...ners/p57-tango
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Old 08-10-2019, 18:59   #6
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Re: Jackline tether question

Chest harness with quick release, Jack line down the centre of the boat,
Lanyard short enough so that you dont go over the side even if your unconsious,
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Old 08-10-2019, 19:29   #7
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Re: Jackline tether question

Not climbing rope for a jackline. It is way to stretchy, about 10% at 10% BS, which would allow you overboard. Either polyester or Dyneema are preferred (If Dyneema, the strength needs to be ~ 25% greater because there is no stretch).


I've used 8mm climbing rope for tether on cats with really wide decks; long falls are possible (probable). But for a smaller monohull, there is nothing wrong with the standard 3/6 products, and some are very good values. Competition has brought the prices close to that of the materials. I no longer support making your own, unless there are very special circumstances. The commercial products have gotten better and cheaper!


What I do suggest is rigging "test" jacklines to find what system...
  • Keeps you on deck
  • Allows you to move well
  • Keeps you from falling off the back or bow
On a 25' mono you will be using mostly the 3' tether on deck and crawling a lot. That is the truth. Forget about standing tall outside the cockpit.




(An elasticized 6' tether can be stowed very compactly around your waist.)



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Old 08-10-2019, 20:33   #8
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Re: Jackline tether question

Plenty of good advice here.
The center jackline seems a great idea if you can ring it. It is not always practical with main sheet and Vang systems.
One thing to be aware of is that a rope jackline will roll under your feet which you don't want. That is one reason why the webbing is generally used for side deck jacklines. I had a boat where the jacklines were permanently set up in swaged lifeline wire. Great for uv protection and always rigged but lethal under the feet.
Might be good for a centerline jack stay though and save some de - rigging.
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Old 08-10-2019, 21:20   #9
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Re: Jackline tether question

I was going to make a Y with the jacklines. In front of the mast would be center and aft of mast to cockpit would split off diagonal because the sliding cabin hatch wouldnít allow a center jackline there. If webbing is used for the jack line can it be tied into a loop around the padeyes or does there need to be a loop sewn into it?
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Old 08-10-2019, 22:16   #10
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Re: Jackline tether question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astevens View Post
I was going to make a Y with the jacklines. In front of the mast would be center and aft of mast to cockpit would split off diagonal because the sliding cabin hatch wouldnít allow a center jackline there. If webbing is used for the jack line can it be tied into a loop around the padeyes or does there need to be a loop sewn into it?
I use webbing with a loop tied into it and shackled for and aft. I remove it when not sailing offshore because the UV weakens the webbing.
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Old 08-10-2019, 23:43   #11
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Re: Jackline tether question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Breaking Waves View Post
Single handing - you really really want to make sure your set-up will not ever let you go over the side. That is hard to do with the classic side deck jackline design. Centerline or inboard jacklines are a bit better - workstation hard points with real short tethers is even better
Choice of technical materials is usually a matter of personal preference and from the range of responses in this thread and an earlier similar one, it is clear that many people use many different materials. I was a serious climber but we use webbing outside of the cockpit and stainless rigging wire down one side of the cockpit. We developed a reasonably sure way to transition between the two systems using double tethers. Photos are in my photo album labelled "Jacklines, tethers....).

The most important item, particularly for a single hander (but for others as well) is the advice provided in the quote above from a previous respondent. Your jackline/tether system needs to be situated to make the probability of going over the lifelines as unlikely as possible. Getting back on board is extremely difficult, even with someone to help. There are lots of case studies to verify this observation.
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