Classic 37, Alberg 37 Twin? Calling all History Buffs

[DavidSaunders]

Hi All,
I just bought a "Classic 37", built by Grampian in Ontario, Canada, and also marketed out of Annapolis as a "Walton 37". It is Sparkman and Stephens' design #1718. Apparently around 40 were made.

She was incorrectly marketed as an Alberg 37, which doesn't bother me, and after some research the two designs appear to be nearly twins. The LOA, LWL, Displacement, Beam, and other specs appear to be very similar. The main differences I can see are in the rudder (smaller in the Classic), coach roof, where there is a bump up in the "Classic 37" (and some too large windows), and the sheer line in the Alberg appears a straighter.

I know within this traditional style of boat there is not a tremendous amount of variation, but the two are so close it has me wondering if the design was shared or ...ahem... "borrowed", one way or the other.

If anyone knows the history of these designs I'd love to learn more about both of them and any further similarities or differences you are aware of.
I'd also love to be able to track down a set of Plans for the Classic 37, so if you have any clues in that direction I would appreciate your help.

Links from Sailboat Data:
Alberg 37
ALBERG 37 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Grampian/Walton Classic 37
GRAMPIAN CLASSIC 37 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Thanks!
David

[DavidSaunders]

I couldn't see how to edit in the message for some reason....
I also welcome feedback about relative build quality. I have seen somewhere that this vessel was LLoyd's certified. How do I go about confirming that?
Thanks again,
David

[roverhi]

I thought about one of the Grampians when I was looking for a boat years ago. Photos etc, looked like a good looking classic boat. As far as the lineage, the Alberg 37 I believe was designed by Alberg, not S&S. The designed thinking and rating rule made for boats that had very similar appearance but there were subtle differences that you'd only be able to see with a side by side viewing and/or line drawings of the boat.

FWIW, there were some boats built by different manufacturers that came out of the same molds or designs. Ripping off designs was rampant in the Far East, just ask Bob Perry. The Ericson 35 Mark I was supposedly laid up in the Pearson Alberg 35 mold that mysteriously disappeared on the way to the land fill when Pearson closed their West Coast factory.

[Copacabana]

A very nice boat and quite the pedigree! Check out the Distant Shores videos (the early ones). Paul And Sheryl built their Classic 37 from a bare hull. Great video series...

https://www.distantshores.ca/about-u...boats/twostep/

[Don C L]

The differences are subtle, but one is a Carl Alberg and one is a Sparkman and Stephens design. If you notice the waterline at the bow, there is more hull in the entry in the Alberg. Also, Olin Stephens really liked a smoother curve to the leading edge of the keel, Alberg seemed to prefer a slightly more defined transition from hull to keel (compare the hulls of the Pearson Triton to my Columbia 29 to see it too, they have very similar specs.) You might compare the Luders 36 hull too, it is kind of intermediate between Stephens' and Alberg's preferences. Again, very subtle and you have to look closely. They are all beautiful, sea-worthy and sea-kindly boats by any measure. With those overhangs, which do extend waterline and increase speed when heeled, try to keep heavy loads out of the bow and stern to reduce any tendency to hobby horse. Let's see some photos of your beautiful boat!

[Don C L]

This link may be helpful:
Sparkman & Stephens: Search results for Classic 37

look also at "Nova" design #1628 for reference to its genesis.

I lucked out with my boat, it came with a lines plan from Olin Stephens himself, but it was not something he liked giving out! I have a letter from Olin Stephens where he mentions he hopes he will get the plans back!

[DavidSaunders]

Thanks so much Don C L,
Indeed the differences in the designs are very subtle. Thanks for adding the Luders to the mix.
Regarding the weight out of the bow notion, I was under the impression that keeping most of the weight towards the centre and low would result in a quicker motion. I'm certainly not a physicist, but I read stories about boats losing their masts, and the "counter-lever" they provide can result in a very uncomfortable ride. Something about inertia...
I guess I think about figure skaters spinning with their bodies in tight, small circles very quickly, or more slowly with an arm or a leg extended.
I guess I will try out various loading scenarios and see what works best through empirical testing. I know these boats will hobby horse a bit, and I will be doing what I can to slow that down, or if possible to eliminate it.
Thanks for your thoughts.
I welcome further discussion, because I am no expert. Maybe I have my ideas all wrong....
She needs some work before Spring, so I've got lots of time to ponder.
Cheers!

[Don C L]

Yes, I have been puzzled by the physics too, but I think the see-saw analogy is the easiest way to describe it. My own does not show it much but I don't have the longer overhangs.

Check out the Plastic Classics group!
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...+classics.html

[DavidSaunders]

Thanks Again, Don C L!