Newbie and a Pearson 422?s

[Kalimniosjohn]

Hello all I am new to the board and new to sailing. Sailing the world has been a dream of mine since my teenage years and I am just at a point that it is possible. So the house is going up for sale, along with jet ski, center console, and fourwheeler.

As most newbs, I have nearly endless questions. I'll just start with a few though. What is the best rig for blue water cruising? I have read in several books from people such as Cappn Fatty, Beth Leonard, and the Pardey's, and all seem to agree that cutters are a fine rig. I have also read and talked to people who think ketches are also a good way to go. Of course my brain tells me to listen to the people who have compiled literally hundreds of thousands of miles under sail. But my heart has fallen in love with the Pearson 422. Most of which are ketches. What say you?

Second, how well is the Pearson 422 suited for world travel? What are some things I should be cautious of? Are there any similar boats I should also be looking at? Depending on the sale of my home, my budget is $100,000. $70 for the boat, and another $30 as as I get to know her. I live in cocoa beach fl so I plan to do several 3-4 week long jaunts to the Bahamas as I learn to sail, and what I do/don't need for living aboard. Does this budget seem feasible for a well found boat ready to cross oceans?

Lastly, my plan is to live pretty frugally. I don't want to go to marinas, or eat out, or run a generator if I don't need to. Do you think $1500/month on a 42 foot boat is doable, or should I save and plan for more expenses? My goal was 30k before I left my home base for good, which would give me about a year and a half of uninterrupted cruising. I of coarse plan to try to make additional money as I go.

Thanks, john k

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, John.

[Spindrift NH]

You would do well to check out the Pearson424.org owners site, lots of info there. In short, yes the 422 is a world cruiser and is the same hull as the 424.
Silverheels, a well documented refit has just gone on the market. Anyone looking to travel the world on a Pearson should take a look, many of the refit projects were featured in Cruising World magazine.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kalimniosjohn

Hello all I am new to the board and new to sailing. Sailing the world has been a dream of mine since my teenage years and I am just at a point that it is possible. So the house is going up for sale, along with jet ski, center console, and fourwheeler.

As most newbs, I have nearly endless questions. I'll just start with a few though. What is the best rig for blue water cruising? I have read in several books from people such as Cappn Fatty, Beth Leonard, and the Pardey's, and all seem to agree that cutters are a fine rig. I have also read and talked to people who think ketches are also a good way to go. Of course my brain tells me to listen to the people who have compiled literally hundreds of thousands of miles under sail. But my heart has fallen in love with the Pearson 422. Most of which are ketches. What say you?

Second, how well is the Pearson 422 suited for world travel? What are some things I should be cautious of? Are there any similar boats I should also be looking at? Depending on the sale of my home, my budget is $100,000. $70 for the boat, and another $30 as as I get to know her. I live in cocoa beach fl so I plan to do several 3-4 week long jaunts to the Bahamas as I learn to sail, and what I do/don't need for living aboard. Does this budget seem feasible for a well found boat ready to cross oceans?

Lastly, my plan is to live pretty frugally. I don't want to go to marinas, or eat out, or run a generator if I don't need to. Do you think $1500/month on a 42 foot boat is doable, or should I save and plan for more expenses? My goal was 30k before I left my home base for good, which would give me about a year and a half of uninterrupted cruising. I of coarse plan to try to make additional money as I go.

Thanks, john k

I had a Pearson 365.

I'm not going to touch the cost per month question with a ten foot pole. There is no real answer to that.

First advice is to get a thorough survey done on any serious candidate boats, and be very realistic about refit and upgrade costs. Boats that old are often worth less than zero when you calculate cost to refit and value afterwards. Beware! Avoid project boats, which are almost always money pits. Favor boats which have recently had significant refits -- you will be getting the work for less than it cost the seller. A serious refit of a boat that size can run into many tens of thousands -- be careful.

Concerning rigs: I think the ketch rig is less than optimal on a boat less than 50'. I would prefer a cutter. But ketches have some advantages even on a smaller boats. A boat like that Pearson is not a hot sailer in any case (my 365 in fact was rather a pig to sail), so the main disadvantage of ketch rigs -- upwind sailing performance -- does not really come into play.

So if you are set on the 422, then I would give preference to cutters, but take a ketch if you find a particularly good deal. Avoid sloops -- not enough sail plan options for real all weather sailing in my opinion.

As to whether the 422 is suitable for "world travel" -- it's a very solid, very strong, very comfortable boat for its size, but rather slow. Also rather old. I would prefer a newer, faster boat, personally, but people's tastes differ. Nothing wrong with a slow, solid boat -- and there are some advantages. Beware the cost of setting up a boat like that for actually crossing oceans, which is not the way 99% of Pearsons are used. You will have to acquire a fair amount of fairly expensive equipment in most cases if you want to be safe and comfortable (EPIRB, watermaker, sat phone or SSB with Pactor, spares and tools, medical kit, life raft, etc., etc., etc.).

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

[skipmac]

Hi John,

I have a Pearson 422 and just finished a 7 1/2 year refit so have a pretty good handle on what's under the hood, strong points, weak points and what to look for. Also as Spindrift mentioned, the 424 is the identical hull and rig to the 422, just aft cockpit instead of center cockpit. However the 424 does also have an aft cabin with the aft cockpit which isn't common in boats of that size.

Aside from the cabin layout there are a few other differences in engine and tank layouts that can be important in some maintenance situations.

There are a number of 422s and 424s that have made extensive trips and even a couple of circumnavigations if I recall. However as Dockhead mentioned, they aren't the fastest boats and are getting older so, if not well maintained and updated, could need some extensive work. All that being said, I am happy with my 422 and think it's a lot of boat for the money.

By the way, I have the cutter rig which is my strong preference. The older 422 cutters were just a sloop with a staysail added. Later boats with a cutter rig the mast was moved aft a few feet to make it more a true cutter. Like almost anything on a boat with different rigs there are trade-offs, advantages and disadvantages to all options.

Would be happy to talk to you about Pearsons if you want to give me a call. Will send you a PM with contact details.


Skip

[skipmac]

One other comment, while the 422 or 424 is a solid boat and I think very suitable for world cruising I'm not sure it would be my first choice for high latitude sailing.

[double u]

for your plans & budget:
a boat to small would be uncomfortable
a boat too big would KILL the project!

[Jack Lahr]

Be aware that a 422 is a boat not especially for newbies to sailing. Steep training needs plus maintenance of a major commitment. This from a 422 alum who thinks this is a great boat and not really a slow boat at all in decent wind Happy to pursue these thoughts offline.

[redhead]

Dockhead -

our P365 was also a pig to sail UNTIL we bought a Max Prop. Instantly a better sailor - i.e. didn't take 15 kts of wind to get her moving, pointed better, and best of all (or worst, certainly most surprising) the first time I put it in reverse I almost made hull speed. I only wish I could afford one for this boat.

[Kalimniosjohn]

Originally Posted by Spindrift NH

You would do well to check out the Pearson424.org owners site, lots of info there. In short, yes the 422 is a world cruiser and is the same hull as the 424.
Silverheels, a well documented refit has just gone on the market. Anyone looking to travel the world on a Pearson should take a look, many of the refit projects were featured in Cruising World magazine.

I have seen the silver heels on yacht world, looks like a great boat. At 25-30k more then most other 422 or 424's though, I'd have no room for any personalization. Definitely will take a closer look though.

Will definitely look into the owners group you mentioned also.

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I had a Pearson 365.

I'm not going to touch the cost per month question with a ten foot pole. There is no real answer to that.

First advice is to get a thorough survey done on any serious candidate boats, and be very realistic about refit and upgrade costs. Boats that old are often worth less than zero when you calculate cost to refit and value afterwards. Beware! Avoid project boats, which are almost always money pits. Favor boats which have recently had significant refits -- you will be getting the work for less than it cost the seller. A serious refit of a boat that size can run into many tens of thousands -- be careful.

Concerning rigs: I think the ketch rig is less than optimal on a boat less than 50'. I would prefer a cutter. But ketches have some advantages even on a smaller boats. A boat like that Pearson is not a hot sailer in any case (my 365 in fact was rather a pig to sail), so the main disadvantage of ketch rigs -- upwind sailing performance -- does not really come into play.

So if you are set on the 422, then I would give preference to cutters, but take a ketch if you find a particularly good deal. Avoid sloops -- not enough sail plan options for real all weather sailing in my opinion.

As to whether the 422 is suitable for "world travel" -- it's a very solid, very strong, very comfortable boat for its size, but rather slow. Also rather old. I would prefer a newer, faster boat, personally, but people's tastes differ. Nothing wrong with a slow, solid boat -- and there are some advantages. Beware the cost of setting up a boat like that for actually crossing oceans, which is not the way 99% of Pearsons are used. You will have to acquire a fair amount of fairly expensive equipment in most cases if you want to be safe and comfortable (EPIRB, watermaker, sat phone or SSB with Pactor, spares and tools, medical kit, life raft, etc., etc., etc.).

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Thanks for the info, I will definitely be hiring a surveyor for any boat I am serious about.

Originally Posted by skipmac

Hi John,

I have a Pearson 422 and just finished a 7 1/2 year refit so have a pretty good handle on what's under the hood, strong points, weak points and what to look for. Also as Spindrift mentioned, the 424 is the identical hull and rig to the 422, just aft cockpit instead of center cockpit. However the 424 does also have an aft cabin with the aft cockpit which isn't common in boats of that size.

Aside from the cabin layout there are a few other differences in engine and tank layouts that can be important in some maintenance situations.

There are a number of 422s and 424s that have made extensive trips and even a couple of circumnavigations if I recall. However as Dockhead mentioned, they aren't the fastest boats and are getting older so, if not well maintained and updated, could need some extensive work. All that being said, I am happy with my 422 and think it's a lot of boat for the money.

By the way, I have the cutter rig which is my strong preference. The older 422 cutters were just a sloop with a staysail added. Later boats with a cutter rig the mast was moved aft a few feet to make it more a true cutter. Like almost anything on a boat with different rigs there are trade-offs, advantages and disadvantages to all options.

Would be happy to talk to you about Pearsons if you want to give me a call. Will send you a PM with contact details.


Skip

Email sent

Originally Posted by Jack Lahr

Be aware that a 422 is a boat not especially for newbies to sailing. Steep training needs plus maintenance of a major commitment. This from a 422 alum who thinks this is a great boat and not really a slow boat at all in decent wind Happy to pursue these thoughts offline.

If it was going to be an easy transition, it probably wouldn't be half as much fun. Also I am not new to boats or boat maintenance, just sailing. Hopefully I will be able to pick up the skills necessary as I get to know the boat at my home base over the next year or so. I'd gladly partake in any offline thoughts you'd like to share. I can't send PMs yet though.

Originally Posted by redhead

Dockhead -

our P365 was also a pig to sail UNTIL we bought a Max Prop. Instantly a better sailor - i.e. didn't take 15 kts of wind to get her moving, pointed better, and best of all (or worst, certainly most surprising) the first time I put it in reverse I almost made hull speed. I only wish I could afford one for this boat.

Interesting, I will definitely keep the props in the back of my mind as I personalize whatever boat I end up with.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by redhead

Dockhead -

our P365 was also a pig to sail UNTIL we bought a Max Prop. Instantly a better sailor - i.e. didn't take 15 kts of wind to get her moving, pointed better, and best of all (or worst, certainly most surprising) the first time I put it in reverse I almost made hull speed. I only wish I could afford one for this boat.

That must have been funny to watch you going in reverse at near hull speed -- in tight circles!

We had one of the first (water-lubricated) Brunton Autoprops, so we weren't dragging a fixed prop through the water. The P365 is just a heavy boat with a lot of wetted surface, long shallow keel, crude small rig -- just not a sailing machine. Loved her, though. She was pretty, strong as can be, stable, had an excellent nav table, and an excellent heads with separate shower. I've not sailed the 422/424, but this is reputed to sail somewhat better (which is not saying much).

[skipmac]

Hi John,

Haven't seen the listing for Tor's boat (Silverheels) but I have been onboard and as I recall it's in excellent shape and he most certainly has done all the little stuff (rebedding hardware), cleaning tanks, replacing lines/hoses/belts/bit/pieces/etc so bet it would probably take less work and cost less to get it ready to go than other used boats of that age.

I would guess it's as close to turn key as most any used boat.

[Kalimniosjohn]

Hmm, I will have to message Tor for some more info. He will be in Florida soon if I recal what the add said correctly. It would be nice to get a boat that I could buy with confidence. Maybe I could even convince him to show me how to sail it.

[Paperbird]

Another 422 here, sitting in Eleuthera as i type this. Also did a complete refit including repower. Very satisfied with the boat. The crew is def the weak link in the system!

Also have lots of notes that we could share.

BTW- there might be a 422 willing to be sold in Treasure Cay in the Abacos. At least there was last season

[buzzstar]

You will find almost as many opinions about "best" as you will find boats. A couple of general thoughts may be worthwhile. No matter what anyone says, keep in mind it is your dream, your budget, and (I do not necessarily mean this in the full meaning of the word) your problem. The bigger the boat, the higher the expenses. You do not say how many would be involved, but you might find something in the mid to high thirty foot range more doable on the longer term if you like what you are doing. Cutters are indeed great, particularly if running. In the area where your initial sailing will be you might find a ketch more desirable, but maybe not. Both rigs tend to be easier to handle than a sloop. also keep in mind that draft is important in many places, and I do not mean shallow draft alone. One possible important thought, while I think your monthly budget is low, I definitely can be incorrect, but I truly believe some decent portion of your $100k probably belongs in a reserve. It is with great envy (because I cannot do it again), I say have fun with your venture and enjoy the adventures.