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29-03-2017, 19:37
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 21
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Mast Step Screws Stripped/Ripped out
When I stepped my mast a few months back the mast step ripped out of the deck on my Catalina 25 std rig. It was my first time stepping the mast, and I learned a few hard lessons, so please forgive my ignorance, and hopefully I can get some solid advice here. I lowered it too far over and should have used a mast support to reduce the pressure on the mast step in the last 25 degrees of stepping.
Anyhow, the screws stripped out of the wood, and while I thought about just using longer screws, I was thinking that I might be better served in other methods, or by seeking advice of fellow sailors.
Should I fill the holes with wood glue and wooden dowels, and then drill a pilot hole for the replacement lag screws?
Or attempt to use longer screws that have a little more width and "bite" while also filling with wood glue? Or forgo wood glue altogether?
The original screws were about 2 inches and sat flush in the mast step. I haven't found Longer screws that don't protrude above the mast step, and what I have found is longer, slightly wider, but has a hex nut on top. Hex bolt or lag bolts would stick up from the mast step, but it does not appear that they would interfere with the setting of the mast. I. E.... The mast would still sit flush on the plate and not hit the hex bolts.
Any advice is certainly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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29-03-2017, 19:47
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#2
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Moderator and Certifiable Refitter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 20,300
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Re: Mast Step Screws Stripped/Ripped out
In order of best practice.
1) Chisel out the damaged wood and fill (glue) with a new piece of wood of the same type and grain alignment as the original.
2) Drill out damaged wood and refill with thickened epoxy.
Using dowel to fill is not a great idea as you will be serving into end grain.
Of course the quick and dirty method is to simply use fatter fasters
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
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29-03-2017, 19:54
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 21
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Re: Mast Step Screws Stripped/Ripped out
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname
In order of best practice.
1) Chisel out the damaged wood and fill (glue) with a new piece of wood of the same type and grain alignment as the original.
2) Drill out damaged wood and refill with thickened epoxy.
Using dowel to fill is not a great idea as you will be serving into end grain.
Of course the quick and dirty method is to simply use fatter fasters
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The screws go through a fiberglass deck into the support post that runs through the cabin. It's solid wood, which leads me to believe it's already end grain. I see or understand the problem with the dowel. Chisel isn't much of an option. Cleaning hole with drill bit.... Possible.
I think longer screws are an absolute must here, and going slightly wider may require drilling out some of the mast step.
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29-03-2017, 21:30
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#4
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Moderator and Certifiable Refitter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 20,300
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Re: Mast Step Screws Stripped/Ripped out
Quote:
Originally Posted by dridas
The screws go through a fiberglass deck into the support post that runs through the cabin. It's solid wood, which leads me to believe it's already end grain. I see or understand the problem with the dowel. Chisel isn't much of an option. Cleaning hole with drill bit.... Possible.
I think longer screws are an absolute must here, and going slightly wider may require drilling out some of the mast step.
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Yes, I think you are correct. I mis-understood the problem. Maybe a short length of dowel would suffice or a "short plug" of epoxy and longer screws.
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
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29-03-2017, 22:59
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Alaska
Boat: Truant Triad 37 Cutter-Alaska, Leopard 40 Cat, Bahamas
Posts: 364
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Re: Mast Step Screws Stripped/Ripped out
I'm guessing it is a hinged mast step, otherwise you would have removed the screws first, pretty obviously. So, mostly this is just a setup for when you lower the mast, and I like Wotname's suggestions about epoxy (thickened) as is typical with most deck protrusions. You may have to drill out oversize just to have more surface for the screws to bite into. (Not the metal step part though). I would try to find screws with more of a flush head, if you can, than a typical hex head. If not for looks, but also so that it doesn't snag on toes, lines, sails, anything really.
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30-03-2017, 03:14
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
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Re: Mast Step Screws Stripped/Ripped out
Without knowing the boat, along with pics, or better, being on site, suggesting a foolproof course of action is tough. Though we can give you a few general ones that stand a pretty good chance of fixing things, while being risk free.
Start by downloading, & paging through the WEST System guides, project guides, & The Geugeon Brothers, On Boat Construction from Epoxy by the Leading Epoxy Manufacturer | WEST SYSTEM Epoxy In particular, do some reading on Hardware Bonding. Since in order to fix your step, probably the best (& easiest) course of action is to oversize the holes for the fasteners (longer ones), & bond them in place using a high strength epoxy bog.
Bog being a term for epoxy thickened with fillers in order to optimize it’s properties for the job at hand. My personal fav for high load fittings being resin thickened with milled, or chopped glass fibers. For things up to, & include bedding keels to keel stubs.
By bonding the fasteners in place this way, you’re gluing them into a monocoque structure that’s greatly strengthening the wood of your deck’s core, & the compression post. Since epoxy reinforced wood’s stronger than wood, & reinforced epoxy (bog) is stronger than neat epoxy (epoxy sans fillers).
There’s data in the recommended downloads which shows this, along with instructionals on how to do it.
Thus, once the epoxy has cured, everything should be stronger than before the mishap. Though there are ways to make things stronger yet, if truly needed. Such as by bonding an aluminum plate to the cabin top, underneath of the step. Including using bonded in fasteners to further strengthen the plate’s attachment to the deck. So that via such a plate, the loads of the step get spread out over more surface area. But… there’s the possibility fur downsides with this too. Long story, & lots of other options as well.
__________________
The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
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30-03-2017, 08:58
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 164
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Re: Mast Step Screws Stripped/Ripped out
When helping my friend step and unstep the mast on her Catalina 25, we use a local tree service guy with a bucket truck to help with the lifting. He charges $75 each way. Really worth it.......
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30-03-2017, 09:16
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 25,477
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Re: Mast Step Screws Stripped/Ripped out
If there is any way to thru bolt instead of screw, do that. Otherwise I guess long flat head screws are in order, I think they are available up to 5" long. What size are they? You should remove the step clean it up and reseal it well with caulking. When you do that can you drill and bolt thru instead? (pics would help)
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard
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30-03-2017, 09:19
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 413
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Re: Mast Step Screws Stripped/Ripped out
since it deck step. buy a new step with tabernacle por have on fabbed up so that this will never happen again
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30-03-2017, 09:21
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#10
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Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,190
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Re: Mast Step Screws Stripped/Ripped out
Perhaps you could post a few pics of the damage so we can see exactly what you are up against? We'd be far better able to help if you do that.
The mast step is a very important component of the rigging and if the Catalina 25 follows the standard practice (as I think it does) for a factory built boat with a foam/balsa cored deck, and a heel plate to locate the heel of the mast on deck and transfer the compression loads to the compression post that runs down through the cabin to the keel, it is very important for the boats integrity that you make the repair correctly.
So pictures, plz :-)?
TrentePieds
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30-03-2017, 10:52
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 10,208
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Re: Mast Step Screws Stripped/Ripped out
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako
If there is any way to thru bolt instead of screw, do that. Otherwise I guess long flat head screws are in order, I think they are available up to 5" long. What size are they? You should remove the step clean it up and reseal it well with caulking. When you do that can you drill and bolt thru instead? (pics would help)
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I would agree on the bolting. I might go one step more and us a backing plate.
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30-03-2017, 11:10
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: fl- various marinas
Boat: morgan O/I 33' sloop
Posts: 1,447
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Re: Mast Step Screws Stripped/Ripped out
Before jumping into a quick repair you might investigate why this might have happened. My first step would be to probe the post with an icepick to check for rot. Examining the screws that pulled out might also help. Were they bent or deformed in any way? Did any wood come out with the screws?
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