Standing Rigging Maintenance

[Sionnaketch]

Looking for input on replacing standing rigging.

IF YOU HAVE ACTUAL KNOWLEDGE OF THE SUBJECT, please offer input.

We are considering replacing just the lower fittings of our standing rigging (currently swagged) with mechanical fittings, new toggles, turnbuckles and pins, on the theory that the actual wire and upper fittings are seldom an issue, but that lower swagged fittings receive a frequent salt bath which never completely drains, leading to corrosion, cracks, weakness and failure.

This process would involve cutting the old swagged fittings off, inspecting the wire for integrity, then installing appropriate length mechanical fittings and hardware on all lower ends of the rig.

(Please, if you have no first-hand knowledge of this practice, follow and learn with me, but don’t comment - I need facts, not opinion.)

[rbk]

If you have the option (depending on your rig) completely pull one shroud, cut the swag and inspect the inside for corrosion. IF your upper terminals allow for swagless fittings consider doing them as well. If not inspect as best you can. IMO I would consider refurbishing your upper terminals to accept swagless OR have a rigger swag some new top ends and do the bottoms yourself. Cable is cheap and swagless fittings are easy to do.

[roverhi]

Might be a way to get some additional miles out of the rigging. The lower swages are usually the one that causes problems so your thinking is right. Just be sure that you inspect the rigging for broken wires and cracks in the swages. Would not do it with the headstay. Because of side loads from the jib, the masthead swage/mechanical fittings are prone to broken wire strands.

[Jim Cate]

Comments:

1. Peter O's comment on replacing the entire forestay, especially if you have roller furling on it, is correct. I have seen, and experienced myself, such a stay breaking just where it emerges from the upper terminal, whether swaged or mechanical. The extra loads presented from the weight of the furled sail oscillating back and forth at anchor plus the extra side loads from sailing with a reefed sail (where all the force is concentrated near the middle of the stay) lead to early failure.

2. The additional cost of replacing the wires and the upper terminals is small compared to all the hardware that you propose. In your place, I'd do the whole thing and avoid worry about the possible failure of the remaining elderly bits.

3. From memory, Sta Lok (perhaps others as well) make terminals with extra long studs to fit into your rigging screws. This does allow doing what you describe with no mickey mouse hardware extensions.

Good luck with the decision.

Jim

PS It would help if you told us how old the wire is and what construction and alloy.

[Sionnaketch]

Thanks, Jim - all points well taken.
Unfortunately I don’t have the information on absolute age (just “probably a little over ten years”), nor the make/allow of the wire used. We do know that the rig was well taken care of, as in Maine - where the boat spend her last 23 years - the sailing season is only 5 months long. The rest of the time the boat and rig were stored dry and away from salt air. We also know the boat was sailed lightly by the previous owner, for what that’s worth.

[El Pinguino]

Having lost a mast when a swaged T-Ball fitting at the top of a 'lower' failed where it entered the mast ( 8 year old rig) and having had 2 broken strands at the top swage on a 'lower' that was only 3 years old and with only 12,000 miles or so on it I have a little experience.

I still have swaged t-balls on the uppers and intermediates but have changed to tangs/swageless on the lowers. The top of your 'lowers' is probably the hardest working part of your rig..IMO. All my deck level terminations are swageless.

I shortened and re-used the wire on the lowers when I converted to tangs but it was only 3 years old.

[belizesailor]

FYI, if you cut the bottom swages off (or the top for that matter) you cant use a standard length mechanical fitting and end up with the correct length stay. Conveniently, StaLok makes long fittings just for that purpose. 😆

A few years back I cut off my lower side stay swages and replaced with StaLok long fittings because I had a siezed turnbuckle and some visually minor corrossion (but who knows inside). It was a much quicker, easier, cheaper fix at the time than rerigging.

Now, about 5 years later, Im replacing all the rest of the rigging with new. The "old" StaLok long fitings still look like new and Im reusing those (new cones/shapers of course) and most other hardware, but wire is showing its age and I dont trust it anymore. Im going with swaged upper fittings and mechanical lowers. This also has the advantage of that if you are a little off on measuresments you may can correct in the field with mechanical fittings....with all swage on, if its wrong...well, its just wrong.

And, if you havent yet, price StaLok fittings, they aint cheap....which is another reason many go with a mix of mechanical and swaged.

[charliehows]

you're quite right - the failure point for most s/s rigging is crevice corrosion in the swage fittings - very rare for the wire to corrode sufficiently to fail. So I applaud your thinking. I've rebuilt my rigging using slightly shorter wires swaged with thimbles and small lengths of chain at the lowers to bridge the gap - has 3 advantages 1; dont have to be so accurate when getting the wires swaged ; 2;can use the chains for all sorts of useful tie-ons; 3; easy to cut off swaged fittings and re-attach wires with clamps and a bit longer chain.
one problem I encountered - over zealous employee at the wire factory wanted to load test all the fittings as per the standard for lifting wires. Dont know how common this is but it would have doubled the price of the wires I was using - some places may refuse to swage your old wires, but if you persist a solution can usually be found.

[hellosailor]

"the actual wire [is] seldom an issue"

Go tell that to any rigger any manufacturer of rigging wire, or any boatbuilder. They must all be badly misinformed liars and thieves, because they all will guffaw at your idea. Mostly while you're still standing there, although a few might wait until you've left.

[Boatguy30]

Generally the turnbuckles do not necessarily need to be replaced depending on type and condition. Some toggle are more failure prone than others and and closed body barrels likely need replacing.

What is your goal, a 6 month cruise to the bahamas? Circumnavigation? On a reality small boat<35' the cost of doing to all even with turnbuckles really isn't all that much compared to what people drop on a chartplotter and pedestal mount. And which one is more important?

[Jon Hacking]

First, welcome to CF!

I suspect you asked this on the SSCA FB page, but others may want this info as well... We've replaced our standing rigging several times, of course. One thing few people seem to know is the importance of getting ROLLED THREAD turnbuckles, as opposed to the much more common cut thread turnbuckles, to avoid micro-crack propagation, especially under our cyclic loads. Before you buy turnbuckles, read this link.

[Boatguy30]

Getting pretty into the weeds on that one.

I’m fairly certain sta loks use cut threads. Never had a problem. Also, unaware of failures in Alexander Robert TBs.

Gibb/ Navtec/ Norseman had a number or failures/ recalls due to poor quality input materials. Probably a reason they’re no longer in business.

Funny how someone that’s almost dismasted due to an missing cotter pin is a master rigger.... online

[charliehows]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"the actual wire [is] seldom an issue"

Go tell that to any rigger any manufacturer of rigging wire, or any boatbuilder. They must all be badly misinformed liars and thieves, because they all will guffaw at your idea. Mostly while you're still standing there, although a few might wait until you've left.

thanks for that patently absurd comment - I've yet to meet any of the 3 categories of person mentioned who demonstrated amusement at the idea that their product is so utterly devoid of quality or reliability that any fool would trust it.

[Sionnaketch]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"the actual wire [is] seldom an issue"

Go tell that to any rigger any manufacturer of rigging wire, or any boatbuilder. They must all be badly misinformed liars and thieves, because they all will guffaw at your idea. Mostly while you're still standing there, although a few might wait until you've left.

Interesting that in over 100 replies on three different forums, you, “hellosailor”, are the only one to “guffaw”, and almost everyone else was thoughtful and helpful, even if skeptical. My mother taught me “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all”.

[Jon Hacking]

Amen! Thank you.