Anchor Tips make a difference

[Cotemar]

Anchor Tips make a difference

There has been plenty of discussion about anchors, but not much about the actual pointy end that penetrates the seabed.

This anchor discussion will only pertain to the new gen shovel type anchors which all started around 2004.

A wood chisel can be used in 2 ways. Pointy edge down to bite right into the wood or pointy edge up to just shave a thin slice off at a time.

Interestingly anchor manufacturers have selected 1 of these 2 chisel tips types to use in there anchor designs.

Depending on which anchor chisel tip design that is used really influences how good the anchor sets and how short of a scope that can be used to set the anchor.

You really would want the anchor chisel tip edge DOWN, so it’s touching the seabed and is ready to bite in.

Benefits of Anchor Chisel tip edge DOWN:

1) Chisel tip edge DOWN bites in on contact with seabed. Any pull will make it bite in deeper.

2) Easily bites into hard sand, gravel and grass.

3) Allows the anchor to set in scope as short as 2:1.

An Anchor Chisel tip edge UP is not touching the seabed and will slide over hard sand, gravel and grass.

Anchor brand,___Chisel tip,
Rocna__________UP
Manson Supreme_UP
Mantus_________Down
Fortress________Down
Spade__________Down
.
.

[siamese]

Can you support this with real world evidence?

[longjonsilver]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

You really would want the anchor chisel tip edge DOWN, so it’s touching the seabed and is ready to bite in.

Benefits of Anchor Chisel tip edge DOWN:

1) Chisel tip edge DOWN bites in on contact with seabed. Any pull will make it bite in deeper.

2) Easily bites into hard sand, gravel and grass.

3) Allows the anchor to set in scope as short as 2:1.

An Anchor Chisel tip edge UP is not touching the seabed and will slide over hard sand, gravel and grass.

Makes sense to me.

[s/v Moondancer]

While good theory it is not validated by my 1,000+ nights at anchor using a rochna.

It might make a difference in the Keys and Bahamas where the bottom is often a terrazzo floor with 6 inches of sand on top.

[Cotemar]

I know my Rocna would never ever set at 2:1 scope, but a Mantus anchor will.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuVcCKzdxtU

.
.

[downunder]

Lets all acknowledge and thank Steve from SV Panope for all his great work here and the videos of anchors setting since his footage is being used to make a point.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ng-155412.html

[bvander]

Have you ever watched your 3rd Gen anchor set. All the times I have watched (in Bahamas where you actually see the bottom) the initial set occurs while anchor is on the side, which completely defeats your up down chisel argument.
It's only after initial penetration does the anchor begin swinging into normal position,

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by bvander

Have you ever watched your 3rd Gen anchor set. All the times I have watched (in Bahamas where you actually see the bottom) the initial set occurs while anchor is on the side, which completely defeats your up down chisel argument.
It's only after initial penetration does the anchor begin swinging into normal position,

That is true, but if you ever put a Manson Supreme on it side you will see the tip actually gets farther away from the seabed.

The Chisel tip Down really comes into play on 2:1 upto 4:1 short anchor scope in hard sand an hard grass beds. Rocna an Manson Supreme tend to struggle in those bottoms on short scope.

[bvander]

This begs the next question, why are you setting an anchor with 2:1 scope?
In 8 years of full time cruising, 90 % at anchor we have never tried that, why temp fate with our home.

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by bvander

This begs the next question, why are you setting an anchor with 2:1 scope?
In 8 years of full time cruising, 90 % at anchor we have never tried that, why temp fate with our home.

I am with you.

I would NEVER anchor with 2:1 scope.

We always try for 7:1.

This 2:1 scope would only be for emergencies, when you are in a marina an your engine cuts out or maybe your the last one coming in to a very tight anchorage.

[bvander]

If your coming into a tight anchorage means its full, good seamanship perscribes going elsewhere.
Drop a hook in a marina while going forward, if you had the time, would cause you to rapidly swing about in a 180 degrees with no control, better to try to maintain direction and fend off with fenders until you get a line on a piling.

[Dave_S]

I'm not convinced that your chisel wouldn't burry if you pulled it from above the point of resistance instead of pushing in line with it regardless which way up it was. I don't think you can compare unless you apply the same geometry.

[Jim Cate]

With our Manson Supreme (whose tip doesn't touch the sea bed according to above), we routinely initiate setting at around 2:1. With the boat moving slowly backwards, I stop veering chain until it goes taught... brings the boat up fairly abruptly. Then continue to veer, stopping every 25 feet or so for another "jerk" on the chain, until we reach the desired scope. In most bottoms, and with no severe forecast, we routinely use between 4 and 5:1. Then set firmly with increasing revs, pulling with considerable power for a minute or so.

Does this work? Lets see, we've had the Manson for around 12 years. During that time, we've been at anchor for around 350 days each year (guessing a bit here, based on extremely rare marina stays or mooring usage) so that works out to over 4000 days at anchor. During that time we've dragged once in a full gale in Port Davey, Tasmania and once in the Clarence river (in flood, with a huge mass of hyacinth on the bow).

You decide...

Jim

[mogulskibum]

My worthless opinion is that it probably makes a difference, but that difference is so small as to be unobservable (and pointless) in the real world.

Or, more simply, no one is ever going to notice the 1 extra inch/cm it takes the "less efficient" tip to dig in and set.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

With our Manson Supreme (whose tip doesn't touch the sea bed according to above), we routinely initiate setting at around 2:1. With the boat moving slowly backwards, I stop veering chain until it goes taught... brings the boat up fairly abruptly. Then continue to veer, stopping every 25 feet or so for another "jerk" on the chain, until we reach the desired scope. In most bottoms, and with no severe forecast, we routinely use between 4 and 5:1. Then set firmly with increasing revs, pulling with considerable power for a minute or so.

Does this work? Lets see, we've had the Manson for around 12 years. During that time, we've been at anchor for around 350 days each year (guessing a bit here, based on extremely rare marina stays or mooring usage) so that works out to over 4000 days at anchor. During that time we've dragged once in a full gale in Port Davey, Tasmania and once in the Clarence river (in flood, with a huge mass of hyacinth on the bow).

You decide...

Jim

Its amazing the lengths people will go to validate their own particular choice of anchor and rubbish others.