Recommended SWR Meter for SSB - Panel Meter?

[seegem]

Hi, I'm looking for an SWR meter for my HF radio; one that I can panel mount directly to the wall. The Daiwa CN-410M was perfect for this, but is out of production for years, and I can't seem to find any on eBay. Does anyone have any recommendations? (Not that it matters but I'm using an ICOM M802). Thanks!

Mark
KK6ZNS

[dwoodall]

Daiwa makes the CN-100 series. Not panel mount but could be mounted on a shelf. Never used it so know nothing about it. Here is the link.

MFJ also makes one that might work for you. Link.

HTH,
Doug

[seegem]

Thanks Doug,

I'm actually specifically and ONLY looking for a wall-mounted meter. This is for my sailboat after all and the elegancy and practicality of a wall panel mounted meter is a must.

I've found the Daiwa CN-410M HF/VHF Cross Needle SWR Power Meter on eBay (listed in Italy, advertised as new in box), so perhaps that may work. I'll know in 3 weeks. There's also the Jetstream JTWHF meter, which I purchased, and can modify to wall panel mount. We'll see and I'll post the results here.

The key attributes that I'm seeking are:

1. It’s not too large; doesn’t take up more height & width than any of the existing displays/devices on the wall (e.g. the Raymarine i7 display, or the ICOM M802 speaker)

2. It is LED back-lit

3. It has a high & low power output option

4. It covers the HF bands at the very least (3-30 MHz)

5. It is analog & has cross&needles for output & reflected power

If anyone knows of any other options, please let me know?

Thanks!

Mark
KK6ZNS

[btrayfors]

Mark,

I've used the Daiwa CN-101L for years, both at home and on client's boats. It's not designed for panel mounting, but it can be mounted that way, given a little ingenuity.

It's widely available new for $99, and is a quality meter with the attributes you mentioned...except for the mounting.

73,

Bill
WA6CCA

[nomisfarms]

Check out this site, hope it helps, good luck.MFJ-822 and MFJ-842 SWR Meter

Fair Winds

[trifan]

Originally Posted by seegem

Hi, I'm looking for an SWR meter for my HF radio; one that I can panel mount directly to the wall. The Daiwa CN-410M was perfect for this, but is out of production for years, and I can't seem to find any on eBay. Does anyone have any recommendations? (Not that it matters but I'm using an ICOM M802). Thanks!

Mark
KK6ZNS

Cannot imagine why one would want an SWR meter panel mounted for an HF rig. Other than the "Hey, look! Ain't that cool" aspect of seeing a needle flop around when you are talking, it's not a very useful piece of equipment. Now, having one available to actually check the antenna at the antenna is a useful tool. IMHO, of course. Unless the feedline is not being used as feedline and is part of the actual radiating element, then the SWR reading at the transmitter is problematic at best. I have actually made a forward/reflected power meter, remotely mounted at the antenna with the meter leads brought back into the shack and connected to a meter through a "For/Rev" switch. That was a useful tool. Didn't show SWR but it could be calculated easily enough.

[trifan]

On that same note about swr and HF antennas, sometimes do a calculation of how much feedline loss there is with a 3:1 SWR. It will be so many DB per wavelength, then figure the typical wavelength of a feedline on a boat at HF frequencies, then you will see that SWR loss is negligble. HOWEVER, since most modern HF radios have some form of SWR sensing, they reduce output power is it increases. Not so much as to be a problem, since S units are typically about 3 to 6 db apart ( there is no standard) and cutting your output power in half only drops your sigal 3 db. I have worked many countries and all continents with a 100W mobile rig fed into iffy antennas. If I could hear them, they could hear me. The rig still works and I got it back in 1980. YMMV

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by trifan

Cannot imagine why one would want an SWR meter panel mounted for an HF rig.

It could tell you if your autotuner is broken, or otherwise can't tune the antenna. Of course many (most ?) radios will tell you if there's a significant SWR problem. Personally, I don't have one on-board, but do hook one up when checking the radio system.

An SWR meter at the antenna isn't going to be much help unless you have a resonant antenna such as a dipole cut for the frequency. A backstay antenna will usually have an impedance far away from 50 Ohms, and will show a huge SWR even when the tuner is doing it's job.

[trifan]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

It could tell you if your autotuner is broken, or otherwise can't tune the antenna. Of course many (most ?) radios will tell you if there's a significant SWR problem. Personally, I don't have one on-board, but do hook one up when checking the radio system.

An SWR meter at the antenna isn't going to be much help unless you have a resonant antenna such as a dipole cut for the frequency. A backstay antenna will usually have an impedance far away from 50 Ohms, and will show a huge SWR even when the tuner is doing it's job.

True. In the case of a boat I guess most antennas are non-resonant and require a tuner, but don't most tuners have meters? Oh, well... I remember an old WWII surplus xmtr that had one hell of a tuner built in. No meters except the current to the tubes. Peak and dip, peak and dip and try to keep the plates from getting too red. I loaded my window screen once and made some 40 mtr contacts. Another century... I'm getting some sense of how the Highlander felt.

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by trifan

True. In the case of a boat I guess most antennas are non-resonant and require a tuner, but don't most tuners have meters?

Most "boat tuners" are black-boxes such as the Icom AT-140. The radio may have some sort of SWR indication, but if so it's usually not obvious (well, *I* don't know where to find it, if it exists, on my IC-710 transceiver.)

I just checked the manual for the popular IC-802 transceiver and the display indicates "SWR" during transmit if there is a problem. A real SWR meter could be useful.

[model 10]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

I just checked the manual for the popular IC-802 transceiver and the display indicates "SWR" during transmit if there is a problem. A real SWR meter could be useful.

I am not at the boat right now but I would swear there is a SWR meter selection in the 802 radio, a bar graph maybe.

[denverd0n]

Have to agree that I don't really see a need for a permanently mounted SWR meter, BUT...

If you really want one then I think this is what you're looking for: Ameritron AWM-35 Flat Mobile SWR Power Meter

[David B]

Originally Posted by seegem

Thanks Doug,

I'm actually specifically and ONLY looking for a wall-mounted meter. This is for my sailboat after all and the elegancy and practicality of a wall panel mounted meter is a must.

I've found the Daiwa CN-410M HF/VHF Cross Needle SWR Power Meter on eBay (listed in Italy, advertised as new in box), so perhaps that may work. I'll know in 3 weeks. There's also the Jetstream JTWHF meter, which I purchased, and can modify to wall panel mount. We'll see and I'll post the results here.

The key attributes that I'm seeking are:

1. It’s not too large; doesn’t take up more height & width than any of the existing displays/devices on the wall (e.g. the Raymarine i7 display, or the ICOM M802 speaker)

2. It is LED back-lit

3. It has a high & low power output option

4. It covers the HF bands at the very least (3-30 MHz)

5. It is analog & has cross&needles for output & reflected power

If anyone knows of any other options, please let me know?

Thanks!

Mark
KK6ZNS

Sounds like you are fussy Mark - I can relate ! Would love to see a photo or two of your installation when you have it finished.
For what it is worth, don't discount a stand-alone VSWR unit. A number have a panel front mounted into the case, and you could remove that panel and mount it where you like, with the VSWR bridge elsewhere in a convenient spot out of sight.

I had not thought of installing a VSWR meter on our yacht as we have an ATU (Icom also), and the backstay will be reactive on most bands, but you have got me thinking now - certainly good to keep an eye on things changing.

David
VK5ZL

[GILow]

I thought the SWR meter for the icom 802 had to go between the antenna tuner and the antenna to give a meaningful reading? Therefore I assumed I would be looking for a remote SWR meter since our tuner is right up the back of the boat and the radio stations midships.

Am I wrong in my assumption? If so I will be following the links for panel mounted meters also.

Matt


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by GILow

I thought the SWR meter for the icom 802 had to go between the antenna tuner and the antenna to give a meaningful reading? Therefore I assumed I would be looking for a remote SWR meter since our tuner is right up the back of the boat and the radio stations midships.

Am I wrong in my assumption? If so I will be following the links for panel mounted meters also.

Matt


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

No, there is no SWR meter between the tuner and antenna. The output bolt of the tuner is where the antenna starts.

I don't see any practical need for a dedicated SWR meter between the RF section and the tuner. The tuner will tune the lowest VSWR possible and there is nothing the operator can do to improve it. I would recommend using the standard setup that ICOM provide and then after some months at sea decide if you need to add any aftermarket meters. My guess is you will not find a need for it.