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hunter356 · 27-02-2018, 16:10

Hi,

I just discovered that my fathers Hunter 356 (model 2002) has damages at the keel. The cause is unknown.

It looks like that the top layer of the keel breaks of.

How could this happen? Through penetrating water?
What material is used for covering the core of the keel?
How can this be repaired? Has anybody repaired a similar damage?

Thanks for your hints in advance!

Jens

cal40john · 28-02-2018, 01:07

What kind of keel? Encapsulated, bolt on? If bolt on, is there a fiberglass stub? Where is the transition from glass to ballast relative to the crack?

arsenelupiga · 28-02-2018, 02:07

that looks to me impact damage.

Maybe not grounding but hitting front of the keel. Log ?

captainjay · 28-02-2018, 03:43

That boat has a bolt on Keel. The damaged glass is the fairing used to cover the seam. That keel likely needs to come off. Something shifted. Either impact or keel bolt damage.

boatsrus · 28-02-2018, 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainjay

That boat has a bolt on Keel. The damaged glass is the fairing used to cover the seam. That keel likely needs to come off. Something shifted. Either impact or keel bolt damage.

The damage seems to be at the back of the keel. So if it is impact damage - I am sure you would remember that kind of hit.

Chuck Hawley · 28-02-2018, 09:17

I agree that the keel should come off and have an inspection of all related areas. However, I have a different idea on the trailing edge of the keel damage.

I don't know how this particular keel stubby was made, but it's always difficult to get laminate to be neatly laid up in the inside of a narrow mold. This can lead to voids and poor glass to resin ratio. Filler putties are frequently the "cure", at least cosmetically.

I suspect the damage was caused by an anchor line. It's possible when anchoring in current to have the current reverse and to "run over" your own anchor line, presuming it's nylon. The line wraps around the trailing edge of the keel and chips away at the filler or poorly laminated areas. I did this on SF Bay one time when returning from the Singlehanded Farallones Race in about 1980. My keel had a very fine trailing edge, and the damage was entirely due to the nylon rode. Luckily, I didn't cut through the rode.

Cheers,

Chuck Hawley

oldjags · 28-02-2018, 09:24

Is the boat in an area where it freezes? If water gets in there that might cause it to bust open like that.

Cadence · 28-02-2018, 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjags

Is the boat in an area where it freezes? If water gets in there that might cause it to bust open like that.

That's an excellent point to consider.

hunter356 · 28-02-2018, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by cal40john

What kind of keel? Encapsulated, bolt on? If bolt on, is there a fiberglass stub? Where is the transition from glass to ballast relative to the crack?

It is a bolt on keel. Bolts are tight, at least on a first quick check. I will check that again with a torque wrench.

What is the needed torque?
Theoretically, could slightly loose bolts lead to such a damage?
Can bolts losen themselves?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cal40john

Maybe not grounding but hitting front of the keel. Log ?

The log states (5 years ago) that while anchoring in a sandy shallow area the boat hit sand while drifting around and small waves lead to impact from the bottom of the keel. The keel was checked after this season, but no damage was apparent back then. Maybe it is a delayed damage?

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

I suspect the damage was caused by an anchor line. It's possible when anchoring in current to have the current reverse and to "run over" your own anchor line, presuming it's nylon. [...]

This seems reasonable, but the anchor line is 100% chain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjags

Is the boat in an area where it freezes? If water gets in there that might cause it to bust open like that.

That is a good point. The boat is in the dry dock during winter where it freezes (cold Germany). Maybe water intruded and froze during the winter!? During winter time it has gotten worse and made the damage obvious.

Tricolor · 28-02-2018, 10:44

You have already read this link; Bet You Didn't Know This About Hunters! - SailNet Community

Never trust keel bolts....

oldjags · 28-02-2018, 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunter356

It is a bolt on keel. Bolts are tight, at least on a first quick check. I will check that again with a torque wrench.

What is the needed torque?
Theoretically, could slightly loose bolts lead to such a damage?
Can bolts losen themselves?

The log states (5 years ago) that while anchoring in a sandy shallow area the boat hit sand while drifting around and small waves lead to impact from the bottom of the keel. The keel was checked after this season, but no damage was apparent back then. Maybe it is a delayed damage?

This seems reasonable, but the anchor line is 100% chain.

That is a good point. The boat is in the dry dock during winter where it freezes (cold Germany). Maybe water intruded and froze during the winter!? During winter time it has gotten worse and made the damage obvious.

If it didn't look like that when you hauled it out, I would almost bet it's from freezing. The way it is cracked it looks like something pushed out from the inside rather than anything hitting it. Ice is the only thing I know that will do that.

Next year maybe pour some non-toxic antifreeze into the bilge just in case water gets in from a deck leak.

You'll at least have to grind all that out and re-fair it.. Maybe drop the keel and inspect too. But if it's just the filler and not the laminations of the roving and mat that have separated, it should be structurally OK. But you may also have a crack in the keel stub that is letting water in from above.

oldjags · 28-02-2018, 12:44

I went back and looked at the photos more closely, and I think the keel definitely need to come off. Even the front of the keel has dropped a bit, and if was ice, it may have cracked the floor of the keel stub where the bolts go through. Water is incredibly powerful when it freezes. If there is any space between the keel and the stub where water can collect, it could literally pull the keel bolt nuts right through the fiberglass when it freezes.

oldjags · 28-02-2018, 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tricolor

You have already read this link; Bet You Didn't Know This About Hunters! - SailNet Community

Never trust keel bolts....

It looks like you can't trust anything. When the keel falls off a brand-new Oyster - supposedly one of the best built boats around - who can you trust?

Looking at the photos of the wrecked Oyster just gives me an anxiety attack!

I'm almost ready to go out and laminate another 3/8" inch of epoxy and roving both inside and outside my keel stub all the way up past the curve of the hull.