Cruising pre-children - worth the opportunity cost??

[JAxxzz]

Hi

I've been doing ad-hoc dives into the wealth of useful info on this site, have only contributed small amounts as I just dont really know enough to be of much value. Am posting this under a diff account as obviously contains a lot of personal info.

Basically Im just going to give as accurate a summary of what Im planning; I know no one else in a similar position so hoping I can get some useful advice to try and narrow down my commute-fantasizing to something remotely realistic.

Basically my situation is:
- Married, nearing 30, no kids, myself and wife both professionals (dubious distinction at best, that!)
- Ive had a fairly lucky/successful run career-wise so far, though the cost has been a very work-driven lifestyle. One or two investments that possibly/probably can pay off soon. Additionally we've been careful not to let our costs escalate - average apartment close to work, cook at home, no car or flashy stuff. Since I started we consistently spent 30-50% of after-tax income, and getting lower
- As a result, by 2019 I should have saved up $0.75-1.25mio. Wide range depending on how investments pan out, career etc, but basically not enough to quit work indefinitely.
- Other than RYA course and some day charters no real sailing experience, will ratched that up next in the coming 1.5yrs.

Given we have no kids, and would realistically have to get started 2021 latest if want 2 without treatments, we've been thinking of dropping it all and going sailing in 2019 for 2 years before the pitter-patter of small feet. This leads me to my first question:

1. Would you rather go sailing pre-kids, and possibly return to the 'rat race' once you have kids and are tied down anyway (knowing you will have lost quite a bit of traction career-wise)? On other hand I could push hard another 5 years then earlyish retire (do some consulting etc) but then would have toddlers, not really a traveling-friendly situation. Obviously a massive personal bias but would be interested to hear from those who have made work/kids/sailing tradeoff, which way would you lean here - does additional financial security and open ended sailing compensate for missed opportunities from sailing unencumbered, plus a few more years spent majority of your time staring at screens?

If I do decide to tap out, basically looking at this:

- Buy something fairly basic, monohull, that can comfortably accomodate us and friends/family
- Aim to sail Europe for a year, POSSIBLY cross in Dec, them carribean until season ends. Haul out, touch up, resell at a loss
- Have enough know how to get the dream boat next round (prob w small children)

To this aim Ive been thinking of going with a 10yr+ production model, Bene 473 or similar jeanneau/bavaria (though I think is too big, if no atlantic crossing..) Hopefully will get one already in decent kit (dont want too many frills and additional upkeep) and hoping that resale+transaction+major repairs cost comes to less than $40-50k. Ideally I would have looked at something more seaworthy (Amel comes to mind) I cant help but think the buy/sell process for say a super maramu would be more timely and costly, given small and inefficient market. We would probably cross atlantic with a friend who is very experienced, and most of the rest would be spent at anchor so Im not too bothered going for a charter-focused vessel that will be easy to resell, has seen a lot of depreciation already and has a roomier interior suited for relaxed sailing/time.

One or two side notes:
- If Atlantic crossing is a big ask after 6-9months of sailing/boat is not suitably kitted for blue water we could do just med or carribean. Ideally I guess you need much more than one season to see either properly anyway..
- I dont like how they sail but mrs prefers multihulls, and stability at anchor obv a plus. With large number of nonsailors now looking at liveaboard option (incl yours truly), maybe resell of a decent cat might not be too bad?
- I hope above lengthy post was taken in the spirit it was written - just an honest request for advice, given I dont know anyone in a similar position. I did not inherit any money and condering the amount of nice boats in forum's fleet there are obviously many members much wealthier than me, so hopefully this didnt come across as (pretty ineffectual) bragging.

Thanks if you made it this far, looking forward to hearing feedback!

[leboyd]

I have a friend who was in a similar situation years ago from Canadian West coast, although they already had their first. They decided to buy a boat to sail there and have a couple of more kids. They sailed with the kids are day/weekend/week trips for 10 or so years in a lot of different winds/seas. Then when the youngest was 8, they purchased a new Jeanneau and flew to Europe for a year cruising the Med, with plans to ship it back to Canada. They home schooled the kids on the trip and ended up staying three years or so. They all then returned to Canada and had the boat shipped back. That was about 15 - 20 years ago. They loved it and the kids loved it.

I just saw a FB post where he and his wife just completed the NW Passage.

[BandB]

You have to do what is right for you. If it was me, I'd proceed with the kids and then plan the incredible sailing adventure with the two kids once they are older, perhaps even teenagers, but meanwhile start some weekend and vacation sailing. I think in waiting longer for kids, in addition to the medical implications which you alluded to, there's the delay in retirement, the delay in freedom to enjoy. Two kids at 32 and 34 and then when they graduate college, you're 54 and 56 and perhaps can retire then or soon after. Prime years. Every year that's delayed moves you older, potential of more health issues for you.

[surf_sail]

Another option. Work a couple more years, skip the kids and sail, travel, or just live life indefinitely.

[sailingunity]

We kind of did things backwards. We have kids (6 months, 2 and 5 when we left), bought a boat and took off. Now we're back on land, we found life at sea a little too demanding for young kids. That being said, people certainly have done and still do it. I think it comes down to if you've had previous sailing / open ocean experience before kids. We didn't. The expectations were high and the reality harsher than we expected. However, it was still the most amazing time of our lives! The sea calls to us now, we don't regret having done it at all and are planning to return to cruising life as soon as we feels is right for the family.

In the end, you you end up doing what feels right. All the talk of boats, you can lay out all the requirements you want on paper, however in the end you'll get the one that feels right (obviously still seaworthy, a relative term!) We searched for about 6 months. The boat we found was a ketch (were looking for a cutter), and older than we had said we wanted. Moving aboard, we found a lot of the things we thought overlooked before we bought it to be a little annoying day to day, but that doesn't take away how much we love our boat.

Catamarans are definitely the bee's knees right now. Have visited with friends on several and they are very nice, but come with a price to match! We could probably have gone cat, but chose mono because of the lower costs associated (maintenance, dockage, purchase price) meant we could stay out for longer.

You seem like a logical person, as am I. Not all things can be worked out with logic though, maybe the compromise is to get a day sailer you can use to learn on and get enthusiastic about sailing on. We skipped this, thinking it was a waste of money, but in retrospect I think we should have tried this.

[gjordan]

Go while you can. You never know how life is going to turn out and you cant do things in life retroactively. You have not mentioned another big deciding factor, and that is aging parents. We started cruising in our mid 20s in a simple boat. We returned to work for a few months a year or sometimes for 2 years. Managed to cruise about 12 out of the first 19 years that my ex and I were together. The last boat we bought(44 foot) was assuming we would raise kids aboard. We came back for Christmas one year and found out my dad had terminal cancer, so we stuck around thinking to get my mom settled back in after he passed. He lasted much longer than expected and the wife was 38 so the clock was running out. We became the poster children for the sandwich generation. 18 months after coming home (we thought for a month) we had a child, my dad passed away and the job that I used to be able to leave and come back anytime, changed completely. It was stay and work or dont ever come back to the industry. I could go on but to keep it simple I will say that it finished the free and easy cruising life. We did deliveries for a while , but the last one was Hawaii to Calif with our 1 1/2 year old son. That trip was hell for the wife, and I think that was the last time she sailed. I am now retired and have a new partner and we are refitting a 34 foot sloop to do a bucket list trip back to the South Pacific. You simply cant tell how life is going to turn out, so dont put things off. ____Grant.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by gjordan

Go while you can. You never know how life is going to turn out and you cant do things in life retroactively. You have not mentioned another big deciding factor, and that is aging parents. We started cruising in our mid 20s in a simple boat. We returned to work for a few months a year or sometimes for 2 years. Managed to cruise about 12 out of the first 19 years that my ex and I were together. The last boat we bought(44 foot) was assuming we would raise kids aboard. We came back for Christmas one year and found out my dad had terminal cancer, so we stuck around thinking to get my mom settled back in after he passed. He lasted much longer than expected and the wife was 38 so the clock was running out. We became the poster children for the sandwich generation. 18 months after coming home (we thought for a month) we had a child, my dad passed away and the job that I used to be able to leave and come back anytime, changed completely. It was stay and work or dont ever come back to the industry. I could go on but to keep it simple I will say that it finished the free and easy cruising life. We did deliveries for a while , but the last one was Hawaii to Calif with our 1 1/2 year old son. That trip was hell for the wife, and I think that was the last time she sailed. I am now retired and have a new partner and we are refitting a 34 foot sloop to do a bucket list trip back to the South Pacific. You simply cant tell how life is going to turn out, so dont put things off. ____Grant.

As you talk about not putting things off, it sounded like having kids was important to him and he was considering putting them off to go sailing. I'd agree, don't put the kids off. You did, had the child when wife was 39 or 40, don't know how old you were. Are you going to all your son's games? Going to be in your 60's when he finishes college?

Turned out your ex went through hell on a sail with a 1 1/2 year old son. Had you had the son years earlier, he would have been far easier to sail with and you'd have been able to teach him sailing along the way.

There's a tradeoff and the OP has to decide, but sailing is not the most important part of life. You can't tell how things will go so one needs to be sure what their priorities are and make sure those are given top position.

[Zven]

There's a tradeoff and the OP has to decide, but sailing is not the most important part of life..

Some of us might disagree with this statement :-)
What's most important will certainly vary from person to person. Agreed that the OP needs to consider and decide on his own terms.

[Pizzazz]

I would like to bring up the social aspect of cruising (or the lack of it). Cruising is lonely. You meet some folks at remote destinations but most of the time you are removed from civilization.

There are times in life when we need the social circle. This is typically before kids arrive (partying, comparing to others, etc.) and when kids are 7 to 14 (formative school years). I would strongly recommend you are land based during those times.

This leaves you with the following options: 1) go now as a one year sabbatical, get a small boat, start working on the kids, then sell the boat; 2) raise your kids on a boat (ages two to pre-school), it will be difficult and challenging but will make you one hell of a family; 3) do it after kids go to college.

The easiest is 1), most people do 3). I am waiting for 3).

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, JAxxzz.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

I would like to bring up the social aspect of cruising (or the lack of it). Cruising is lonely. You meet some folks at remote destinations but most of the time you are removed from civilization.

Cruising is only lonely if you choose to make it lonely. The social aspect is one of the great things about cruising. While we do spend time occasionally in remote locations we spend most of our time in developed areas with other people around. The OP asked about doing the Med which is highly developed.

To the OP:
- If you have around $1mil after purchasing a boat, you actually can live a modest but comfortable lifestyle pretty much indefinitely. Not saying you should but it's and option.
- When looking at Cats, don't try to compare foot for foot as Cats have a lot more space per foot. With just 2 of you and possibly a little one a 35-40' cat will likely be plenty big enough and similar price to 45-50' mono and when all is done and said, the costs to own and maintain not much different.
- If kids are important, do it first. You can take a kid with you, especially a young kid will adapt well and if you are younger, you will have the energy to better keep up with them.

[Zven]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

I would like to bring up the social aspect of cruising (or the lack of it). Cruising is lonely....
There are times in life when we need the social circle. This is typically before kids arrive (partying, comparing to others, etc...)

I see you have not been to Barcelona... or Malaga... Nice, Larnaca, or just about any Mediterranean town.

Actually I used to live in a canal boat in London. If that is not a party place, then I don't know what is :-)

[JAxxzz]

Many thanks for all the valuable insights. As noted it's not really possible to give any definitive amswers to a question like this but hearing what other people have done in similar situations is very valuable, so appreciate your time!

I think this kind of boils down to a question of going bare-bones sailing as a 'sabattical' (1-2yrs) at a bit earlier stage, or more full time circumnavigation a few years later. In my case this later option might be complicated by children but I think there are enough mitigating factors (sailing with kids, pushing kids back a couple more years, or just reevaluate that in general) that it might be best to cross that bridge when we get there.

So if it boils down to a choice between a temporary break from the office life or sticking it out a little longer with the view to get out for good once I go (and get some sailing experience in meantime) that does kind of look like a no brainer. Luckily I have a job where additional effort could (but doesnt always) mean additional reward, so probably best to put max into it for the next few years and might even be able to bring the departure date forward enough that I can do some full time cruising before having kids, then just continue indefinitely... *sigh* back to the grind!

[Fence Man]

JAxxzz, it sounds like you have some decisions to make. I've only 10 or so more years of life experience than you, so take this with a grain of salt.... If you want kid(s), they are the greatest blessing you can imagine. If you don't, that's perfectly fine, no matter what your parents and in laws say. We married at 29 and had our daughter exactly 51 week later. Sometimes I wish we'd put it off for a year or two so we would of had more time to just enjoy being us, but then I look at our kid and know that we made the right call. I think that if you check out now, you have a 50/50 chance of never returning to the rat race, and if you raise a kid on a boat from the get go, it'll be a whole lot easier than trying to change ones lifestyle. I wish that it was socially acceptable for us all to take a year or two off every decade. I think we'd all be happier and healthier, and we wouldn't be forced into these all or nothing kinds of decisions. I vote go, think about the kid while your head is clear, and see where it takes you. Congrats on living tight and stacking up the cash. Dave Ramsey would be proud.

[Sparx]

As Fence Man said, if you want kids, they are a true treasure.

If I was in your situation I would buy a catamaran, sail it locally and build up skills as a family sailing unit. Meanwhile get started on the kids. Once the youngest is about 2 head out for that long cruise. Your kids will have very rich lives living on a boat, and the memories you build as a family will build into a deep treasure chest. It wont always be easy, but raising a family is not easy.

A time may come when heading back to a land based home is the right thing,you will know it when that happens. Meanwhile there are memories to make that are the good stuff of life.

You and your wife are obviously very capable people. If at some point in the future you choose to plug back in you will find a way to do so, possibly in a way you could not possibly imaging now. I you leave with $1 mil invested and a paid off boat finances will not be a concern.

My now grown children all agree that they are very glad they grew up in a family that traveled extensively and lived internationally. They have great memories of our escapades, and see current events from the perspective of world citizens. That is one of the best gifts you can give your kids.