Who has the nicest Kit Catamaran

[Firstbait]

Which current passage making catamaran Kit do you drool over and why.
IE. Roam, Spirited 480 designed by Craig Schonning or Fusion 40 Sail
Catamaran.



Would the kitchen be up or down and how much fridge/ freezer space would you need or require.


Washing machine or just a trusty fishing box with lid. A water maker of course.

Diesel Yanmah engines or outboards.
Beach able with lifting rudders or not.

[Nahbrown]

http://www.royalcapecatamarans.com/majestic530.html

We saw one of his at the boat show">Miami Boat Show. The build quality and liveability of this boat was outstanding

[Firstbait]

Nahbrown, thank you for your post the boat looks very nice.


I was thinking more on the lines of Kits that you assemble,
like the Fusion 40 with their kit for.


A kit like this should take about 3,000 hrs to assemble plus planning.

[44'cruisingcat]

Assembling the actual kit for a Fusion 40 should take a fair bit less than 3000 hours.

But getting the boat completely finished is likely to take a fair bit longer.

There are lots of kit choices. The Fusion is a nice boat. Schionnings does a wide range of kits, all of them somewhat more performance oriented than the Fusion, ranging up to seriously fast ( and expensive).

There are also some very nice kits from Tony Grainger.

Most of these, apart from the Fusion, are Duflex kits, generally precut flat panels, with some having moulded round bilge hull shoes.

I chose a Bob Oram designed kit. Duflex panels, outboard motors, kick up rudders, daggerboard, extreme shoal draught. I mostly chose this design because IMO it was the best value around, and because Bob wasn't averse to some modifications to suit my height. (About 2 metres). My height, along with the cost, pretty much eliminated the Fusion from my thinking. There wasn't enough headroom, and being moulded it would be very difficult to alter.

Also with Bob's boats the interior layout is basically a blank canvas. Galley up or down, your choice. 1,2,3,4 heads - up to you. Inboard or outboard motors, you get to decide...

Are you thinking about building a kit cat?

[Firstbait]

Thanks 44c. would lub to see a walk through on your boat on YouTube.

Thinking more on the design and layout of the kits at this time.

Would I build Yes ( no place to build it) or am i better of getting one built here (Thailand may be)to basic point then fitting it out myself.

Can an epoxy 15 mtr Cat handle it with outboards or would you go diesel.

[ausaviator]

There's a Fusion near me. Budget was around $500k.... I was told first hand that the final cost was closer to $1m by the time they made the required upgrades to make it perform well.

The basic kits appear to be pretty basic and if you want decent performance, it will cost a lot more.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Firstbait

Thanks 44c. would lub to see a walk through on your boat on YouTube.

Thinking more on the design and layout of the kits at this time.

Would I build Yes ( no place to build it) or am i better of getting one built here (Thailand may be)to basic point then fitting it out myself.

Can an epoxy 15 mtr Cat handle it with outboards or would you go diesel.

Friends of ours have recently completed a circumnavigation on a 15 metre Oram cat with Yamaha 25's. IMO, it's not length that matters in the motor selection, it's displacement. This is a 15m boat that probably weighs about 7 - 7 1/2 tonnes. There are 12 metre boats that couldn't be powered by outboards.

This guy is a very accomplished boat designer and builder, he built the boat in about a year. He did this in Thailand, and did use some of the inexpensive labour that's available there.

I wouldn't suggest that time span as being indicative though, I've worked with him, and the speed and efficiency he has are amazing.

It does show what's possible though.

[Wckoek]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Friends of ours have recently completed a circumnavigation on a 15 metre Oram cat with Yamaha 25's. IMO, it's not length that matters in the motor selection, it's displacement. This is a 15m boat that probably weighs about 7 - 7 1/2 tonnes. There are 12 metre boats that couldn't be powered by outboards.

This guy is a very accomplished boat designer and builder, he built the boat in about a year. He did this in Thailand, and did use some of the inexpensive labour that's available there.

I wouldn't suggest that time span as being indicative though, I've worked with him, and the speed and efficiency he has are amazing.

It does show what's possible though.

Sorry for barging in, I remember there is a German guy who builds Wharram catamarans in Thailand, is this the same guy we are talking about?
I can't recall his name though.

[44'cruisingcat]

No, not the same guy. Phil is an accomplished monohull designer and builder, decided on a cat for his third time round the world. I think he built most of his boats in NZ or Aus.

[Firstbait]

Originally Posted by ausaviator

There's a Fusion near me. Budget was around $500k.... I was told first hand that the final cost was closer to $1m by the time they made the required upgrades to make it perform well.

The basic kits appear to be pretty basic and if you want decent performance, it will cost a lot more.

Ausaviator, thank you for your thoughts.

To get the design and layout of cat I desire I would be quite happy to spend the money and time required, in a basic way.


Bob Oram on his site comments on Cost.



Another designer has written that designs of an equivalent size and displacement will cost the same and take the same amount of time to build.
​
This is obviously wrong and you would have to question the motive behind such a statement.
There are plenty of variables that can increase or decrease the cost of a boat, they include;
​
1. Complexity of structure.
A one off carbon composite cored structure with hundreds of individual components in an expensive kit is obviously going to cost considerably more (up to 4 or 5 times more) than a simple build that concentrates on using sensible, fit for purpose composite components to create a very stiff, strong structure that will have meaningful longevity and usually built in less time.
​
2. Simplicity of deck layout.
A simple deck layout sounds good but it has to work properly for everyone that is to sail the boat, not just some grunt that is going to use brute force on a winch that is too small for a smaller, older or younger person (partner, parents, children) to have the same outcome safely.
​
Yet the deck layout should not be so complex that it becomes a maintenance and repair nightmare.
I can’t count the number of times I have heard of boats stuck in some port disabled and waiting for parts.
​
3. Level of fit-out.
Spartan, simple yet comfortable and luxurious.

I prefer somewhere between Spartan and simple yet comfortable.

I would rather have a few quality fitments that will seriously last, with absolutely minimal maintenance and utmost reliability than a boat full of gadgetry that requires eternal maintenance and stuffs the day, when it fails because you have developed a dependency on it.
​
Luxurious? Well an occasional visit is enough to remind me just how much time and money went into it, and I never did have an emotional dependency on luxury.

The old adage is true, Keep it simple!
​
It is also true that the simpler the boat the further it is sailed, the longer it is cruised and the longer it is owned.

[Franki]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Friends of ours have recently completed a circumnavigation on a 15 metre Oram cat with Yamaha 25's. IMO, it's not length that matters in the motor selection, it's displacement. This is a 15m boat that probably weighs about 7 - 7 1/2 tonnes. There are 12 metre boats that couldn't be powered by outboards.

This guy is a very accomplished boat designer and builder, he built the boat in about a year. He did this in Thailand, and did use some of the inexpensive labour that's available there.

I wouldn't suggest that time span as being indicative though, I've worked with him, and the speed and efficiency he has are amazing.

It does show what's possible though.

Hi, sorry for butting in late in the thread but I am also looking at building an Osram Cat in Thailand and would love any insights on such a project. Actually Bob suggested it for a range of reasons, so any tips on Phil's experience would be helpful. Thanking you.

[BigBeakie]

I currently have a cat approaching lockup stage being built in Thailand. It has taken much longer and cost more than expected due to (much) lower productivity compared to Oz builders, and lack of materials and equipment locally available so high import costs.

Proceed with caution & a great deal of due diligence.

PM me for further information if you wish.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Teleman]

If you have lots of money and time, the bigger Schionning and Oram kits. Also worth looking at Spirited and Grainger offerings. (Word is that the Fusion is heavy and slow for the money.)

Mid-level choices would be the Schionning Arrow 12 or smaller Wilderness series, or the Oram 39c and 32R.

Bargain end would be the Lavranos Proteus 10.6 plywood kit from CKD boats in Cape Town. All you need in a cruiser with good performance, for a LOT less money.

Building in Thailand is fraught with potential horrors. The only builder there who can be trusted for quality and ethics is Gunther Nutt's Seascape yard. They do beautiful work, on time and in budget.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Franki

Hi, sorry for butting in late in the thread but I am also looking at building an Osram Cat in Thailand and would love any insights on such a project. Actually Bob suggested it for a range of reasons, so any tips on Phil's experience would be helpful. Thanking you.

Hopefully we'll be catching up with Phil fairly soon. I have probably misspoken about him having built in Thailand. According to Bob's website, Jigsaw was built in Malaysia.

From speaking to others building in SE Asia seems not to be as simple as it might have looked at first. Obviously there can be language difficulties, but from what I'm hearing, there are possible theft problems and other cultural difficulties.

[Teleman]

Not so many years ago there was a big fuss about a certain Thai-based Italian-owned boatbuilder whose name I won't mention.


There were issues to do with build time, build quality, big extra charges during builds, and so on. There were bitter internet fights, some legal cases, and some customers who lost heaps of money and wasted heaps of time.


As I posted before, Seascape are the only yard I would trust in Thailand. Besides the quality work, Gunther has been there a long time. Has a Thai family, knows the customs and language, has the right contacts and community respect to smooth the way.


Shipping a kit to Thailand, flights to check on the build etc. would probably negate the lower labour costs......and it's a long sail home from Thailand to wherever.