Crazy Idea? Beneteau 331 to NZ?

[ALAIN97133]

Originally Posted by EmeraldCoastSailor

I'd say pretty crazy but many times adventures are crazy... My tankage doesn't seem sufficient to me for a real ocean passage. It was fine crossing the Gulf with a 15 gallons of diesel in jerry cans (which got used up). But 2+ weeks at sea? I can't see it when there are so many other boats capable of making such a passage.

Tankage shouldn't be a problem since you're supposed to have enough bottle water 'till the next stop in case the main tank(s) gets contaminated... Diesel ? Isn't it supposed to be a sailboat ? On a journey like this, you shouldn't be in a hurry, let the good time rolls even if it means sitting in the middle of the ocean waiting for the wind to come back (Doldrums). Once in a dead calm, in the middle of the Atlantic, we jumped overboard where I kind of freak out seeing under water only sun rays converging toward the bottom of the ocean on nothing but blue blue blue
The real question is your budget ??? How much do you have -Everything included- to get your dream sailboat to NZ ? For exemple, with $40K I purchased an excellent fresh water 1988 6 metric tons Ericson 34 on lake Michigan & sailed it to the West Indies between July & December 2014 & I did the offshore part in 11 days alone, my American crew changing his mind at the last minute

[Heynekamp]

Originally Posted by ALAIN97133

The real question is your budget ??? How much do you have -Everything included- to get your dream sailboat to NZ ? For exemple, with $40K I purchased an excellent fresh water 1988 6 metric tons Ericson 34 on lake Michigan & sailed it to the West Indies between July & December 2014 & I did the offshore part in 11 days alone, my American crew changing his mind at the last minute

Thanks for the info. This wouldn't be a dream boat...just any boat that could make the journey reasonably safe and one that has a large price differential between the US and NZ. I'm in the US several times a year so would definitely get it surveyed. Would try and get a compact watermaker, radio, solar, radar installed and then go. Any boat that is in the 30-40' range that has good NZ resale and of which there are plenty of in the US to keep prices down and quality high. Your Ericson 34 looks interesting as well.

[Uplander]

Check out GST which would be payable at some stage in NZ.

[Omatako]

The run from the Americas to NZ is not called "the milk run" for nothing. But as another post said, the tough part is from the islands (e.g. Tonga) to NZ. That leg will take 7 to 10 days and the weather will change at least once, probably twice in that time. So you will not get good weather all the way at any time.

You definitely do not want to do this voyage between November and April in any year unless the prospect of meeting a cyclone/hurricane appeals to you. For sure that will test your Beneteau.

For the record, I bought my boat in San Diego and after just two weeks of preparation, sailed it back to NZ. We hit VERY bad weather for three days 400nm SW of Raratonga followed by 5 days of 30kn westerlies (on the nose) all the way home from there.

Also for the record, smaller cruisers like the one you're contemplating arrive from the Americas in NZ with metronomic regularity so there is no reason why yours won't, provided the quality of the boat and the seamanship on board are up to snuff.

Good luck if you do go ahead with the plan. FYI I can recommend a really good broker in SD if you need one - PM me if you do.

Oh, also, I get the impression you're planning on exploiting the resale value once in NZ. I assume you're familiar with the import costs into NZ? I paid US$110k for my boat, it cost me an additional NZ$30k to keep it once I got it in NZ. So any thoughts of a profit once here should be carefully considered.

[Heynekamp]

Originally Posted by Uplander

Check out GST which would be payable at some stage in NZ.

Yes, 15% BUT after customs puts on their 5% import duty. Then the GST is calculated on the value of the boat in NZDollars + Customs duty + shipping fees. OUCH! But with the strong USD I think their is still plenty of room.

If you could buy a boat for $50,000 + $15,000 for survey and modifications where you are leaving for $65,000 then convert this to $NZ @ $.70 becomes
$92,857 X 5% duty = $97,500 NZD X 15%GST= $112,125 $NZD.

If you could resell this for $150,000 $NZD you could still justify the cost of the trip. Essentially there is enough in it to cover the cost of the journey which is all I'm looking at doing. If it took a half year to sell it then you get the enjoyment of using it for half a year. Depart the US in late September- October and try to get to NZ by mid-December?

[Heynekamp]

Very interesting! If you are ever down in Nelson please let me buy you a pint at my brewpub as I'd like to talk about your trip more! No interests in making a 'profit' but I think there could be room to cover the expense of the trip and not end up 'upside down in value' for the boat.

Originally Posted by Omatako

The run from the Americas to NZ is not called "the milk run" for nothing. But as another post said, the tough part is from the islands (e.g. Tonga) to NZ. That leg will take 7 to 10 days and the weather will change at least once, probably twice in that time. So you will not get good weather all the way at any time.

You definitely do not want to do this voyage between November and April in any year unless the prospect of meeting a cyclone/hurricane appeals to you. For sure that will test your Beneteau.

For the record, I bought my boat in San Diego and after just two weeks of preparation, sailed it back to NZ. We hit VERY bad weather for three days 400nm SW of Raratonga followed by 5 days of 30kn westerlies (on the nose) all the way home from there.

Also for the record, smaller cruisers like the one you're contemplating arrive from the Americas in NZ with metronomic regularity so there is no reason why yours won't, provided the quality of the boat and the seamanship on board are up to snuff.

Good luck if you do go ahead with the plan. FYI I can recommend a really good broker in SD if you need one - PM me if you do.

Oh, also, I get the impression you're planning on exploiting the resale value once in NZ. I assume you're familiar with the import costs into NZ? I paid US$110k for my boat, it cost me an additional NZ$30k to keep it once I got it in NZ. So any thoughts of a profit once here should be carefully considered.

[jipcho]

I'll be sailing my 42 foot monohull sloop from Panama to NZ in 2017, so if you want some experience before you try it, let me know.

[Uplander]

You may also be subject to Income Tax in NZ (on the profit) as you would have purchased the boat with the intention of making a profit.

[Heynekamp]

Originally Posted by Uplander

You may also be subject to Income Tax in NZ (on the profit) as you would have purchased the boat with the intention of making a profit.

I would be keeping every receipt if I did this. From flights over to inspect, to provisioning, etc. I think at the end of the day it is a wash other than the trip expenses are more easily justified.

I want to do the crossing in the future and take my time stopping and exploring everywhere but the wife does not citing my lack of experience. This looks like a great way to gain the experience and getting a boat to use in NZ until it is time to go cat shopping. All pie in the sky dreaming for now...

[CruiserPete]

If you have:
Excellent planning
Current paper Charts and electronic backup
Required navigation equipment'
Required safety equipment
Good weather window opportunities and importantly TIME to use those opportunities I.E it's not rushed to a schedule
Great survey
Then do it... I'll crew if your dates suit.

Not sure why some think boat size has anything to do with safety other than possible comfort. The discomfort of a small sailing boat on the ocean is warranted for a few months Versus coastal sailing for a few years. There is always a contingent on forums who seem to believe Beneteaus are flimsy and ALL must only set sail on the oceans in Full keel, deep draft yachts, that's crap.
As long as she is sound, the crew know what they're doing and you work to weather windows it will be a fantastic passage.

I'm intending to 'shop' in the USA for possibly bringing a Yacht (Beneteau or Jeanneau) back to Australia.

Go for it... just make sure, you have ticked the required boxes
Cheers, Pete

[El Pinguino]

Do they actually 'sell' for NZ$ 150k or is that what people ask for ?

Big diff between 'ask' and 'get'.....

If you are trying to turn a dollar I would be inclined to put my $ into pumpkin futures.....

[svlamorocha]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Pick your weather windows and it will be fine.

there are no weather windows that are long enough to make it to nz

Sent from my SM-G9287 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by svlamorocha

there are no weather windows that are long enough to make it to nz

Sent from my SM-G9287 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Exactly, and the major prob between Tonga and NZ is that it may well involve some serious windward work into a pretty substantial swell.... not what most cruisers sign on for.....

[Neptune's Gear]

That Bene you linked to on trademe is worth 70K actual sale price in NZ. Folks can ASK whatever price they want. $150K Kiwi will get you a Bene Oceans 46 here if you are careful.
As others have said, yes, your trip can be done. The part from the Islands to NZ being the most risk. Have you read about Platino recently? A 60 something footer that got into trouble on the trip up to the islands and lost two crew, then abandoned the boat? (Since recovered). She was in 40 knots and hit by a front of 75+ (reported at 100Knots by the Orion Search plane) It can be pretty miserable.
In a well found 30 ft boat with an experienced crew and NO SCHEDULE it can be done.
The sale price of a good 30 ft boat when it gets here is likely to be well under 100K NZD.

[Mr B]

I like your idea, I did it, On a 34 foot Cat, Fiji to OZ,
You can buy a boat overseas for half the cost here,In OZ,
I couldnt afford to buy an Aussie boat,
You can buy one with all the bells and whistles if you shop around, They are out there,
Just pick your time to leave, Then use the trade winds to get you here,
Underneath Tonga and Fiji the trade winds go from East to west,
November to March is Cyclone season, Avoid it,
I did look at a Cat in San Diego, same as the one I bought, All the same gear, But I thought 12000 miles was a bit far for my first Ocean crossing,
Get one with a water maker already on board, They are not cheap,
But a fair sized tarp will collect rain water for you, 20 gallons in an hour or two, Catch it in a big bucket,
You are charged from the last point of departure for your costs, GST, Crew, Food, Etc,
GST in OZ is 10 % of the boats cost, It cost me about $14,000-00 for GST on top of the boats cost, But the AUD was $1,05-00 at the time,
You can hire an Experienced Captain and crew in Tonga or the Islands fairly cheaply if you need to,
The cost of Flying them home is also charged to you as costs added to the GST,
Enjoy your trip,