Ushuaia, Tierra del Fuego, Argentina - Killing the Goose that Laid the Golden Egg

[fishwife]

From Noonsite.

Noonsite: Argentina, Ushuaia – Customs Levy Fines on Foreign Flagged Yachts

It has been brought to our attention that customs in Ushuaia are levying "fines" on foreign cruising yachts who according to them have not followed the “correct procedures” according to the law. The details of this “law” is a very grey area and it appears they are referring to laws which pertain to the importation of goods into the country. Very current information should be sought before venturing into Argentina waters.

See the link for more details.

P.

[Astrid]

Almost sounds like going back to the days of the Perons.

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by fishwife

From Noonsite.

Noonsite: Argentina, Ushuaia – Customs Levy Fines on Foreign Flagged Yachts

P.

Anyone who has been down there knows there is a major problem with charter boats, claiming to be just cruisers, but paying no taxes and not meeting any of the local safety regulations. Some of them even have kids in the local schools. It's a real mess and the Argentine's have never figured out a way to differentiate between these charter boats (who they want to tax and regulate) and 'real' cruisers (who they want to welcome).

It's a mess, and its ruining the place for 'real' cruisers, because the only way the officials have found is to just place rules on all foreign flagged vessels. Otherwise the charter boats just lie (and have been doing so for 20 years) and say they are cruisers. Previously they tried various things, like having all 'guests' and 'crew' sign a notarized document saying they were friends and guests and not paying charter, and the charter operators just had their customers sign. Then their tried to say if a boat had a website with any suggestion the boat was for charter, then it was a charter boat . . . but the charterers then said 'well this one trip is just with friends and we are not on charter' and they said that each charter.

THe local officials of course know who are really doing charters, but they have failed to find any way which will stick to officially differentiate them.

The same problem is happening the other side of the Beagle in Chile.

It's sad, and one of the world's most wonderful cruising location is being ruined by these charter boats.

[MarkJ]

Thanks Evans. Its good to get the other side of the story too.

[anglooff]

As Evans states the problem there and other parts of Latin America is increasing. There is a propensity in the Americas (USA included) whereby its almost impossible for most individuals to see a straight line without bending it. Indeed one is almost considered stupid; if one doesn't work outside the rules.

Notwithstanding the above Noontide's other comments regarding oil, repairs etc., I would have thought quite simple to overcome. It also stated that people with boats there for over 10 years returned to fines. Well Argentina as with all other countries allow foreign boats to cruise+leave boat for a certain period, then the boat must leave for a minimum period before returning (normally six months). I do not know whether or not the statement referred to a boat which had met that permission period or had paid someone to turn a blind eye rather, than go to the bother of leaving for Chile for six months. I would suggest (without further information) that it is probably the latter.

Argentina is perhaps the least bureaucratic of LA and the point relating to permits for trip to and from the Falklands is targeted at boats and people assisting in the oil exploration programme about to commence in the islands, which generally pisses them off and is de rigueur around election time. I am 100% sure is not being applied to cruising yachts. (Although UK flagged boats as mine should perhaps delay visiting the area). Finally I have stated before in other threads than Latin American countries are not the best places to be if you have broken their rules. If everything is in order then I have never experienced any difficulties. Once the national election is over then things will cool down

Regards

Alan

[svlamorocha]

Thanks to Evans for putting this right.

If I were to take an Argentine-flagged boat with Argentine crew to do charter work in UK waters without meeting safety regs and without paying VAT I am sure the MCA and HM Revenue and Customs would not like it and everyone would understand why. Why not the other way around?

Evans´s diagnostic point on AFIP´s failure to distinguish a genuine cruiser and an illegal charterer is spot on. Unfortunately there does not seem to be any natural "force" that will resolve this.

Carlos

Originally Posted by estarzinger

Anyone who has been down there knows there is a major problem with charter boats, claiming to be just cruisers, but paying no taxes and not meeting any of the local safety regulations. Some of them even have kids in the local schools... ..
The same problem is happening the other side of the Beagle in Chile.

It's sad, and one of the world's most wonderful cruising location is being ruined by these charter boats.

[nemoofsweden]

Would like the latest on this. How is the 'real' cruisers met and what things to think of before if the plan is Argentina and Falklands/Malvinas? Lucky for us we might not be seen as a charterboat since it's not room for even the smallest dwarf aboard

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by nemoofsweden

Would like the latest on this. How is the 'real' cruisers met and what things to think of before if the plan is Argentina and Falklands/Malvinas? Lucky for us we might not be seen as a charterboat since it's not room for even the smallest dwarf aboard

The latest inside Argentina is much the same, some difficulties but you will be able to work thru them. If you want to leave your boat in Ushuaia there is a new (or newly enforced) rule requiring you to have a local lawyer (paid) signed to look after the boat, and the local club is still trying to charge quite big fees for cruisers to anchor in the harbour (which they have no official authority to do). But if you just go with the flow, and just ask for local advice about how to do things, everything will work out.

The Argentina to Falklands situation has gotten worse. If you want to leave Argentina to the Falklands (or S Georgia) you have to get a form 'permission to visit the Malvinas' approved and so far we can find no-one who has been able to get approval. People are instead leaving from either Uruguay or Chile. It's serious enough that the Uruguay fishing fleet, fishing in falkland and S Georgia waters, are taking a big detour (And spending fuel) when going home to avoid passing thru Argentina waters.

[Ambler]

Permission to sail to Malvinas takes about a week to process. I have seen two and these are rather quirky and include an end date. If the permission is not granted prior to sailing to (or back to) Argentina from South Georgia and or Falkland Islands a fine of $5,000 US must be paid on arrival. Permission will not be granted if the vessel calls into the Falklands and wishes to sail to Argentina next, even if they plan to clear into Chile first! The last 5 ports must be stated on arrival. Fines have been imposed on vessels entering Argentina if they have transited through the Falklands.
I believe the Argies will go to the UN with these permissions one day and use them as some sort of proof that all these vessels recognise Argentina as the sovereign administrator of the Falklands (Malvinas) and South Georgia.

My advice if entering the Beagle is to enter via P. Williams Chile and travel by ferry or charter plane if you wish to visit Ushuaia Argentina, then return to your vessel and cruise the Chilean channels North. Food must not be brought into Chile but may be consumed on board after entering with your vessel. So doing a shop in Ushuaia for food and bringing it back to your boat could be an issue.

[sfnz]

Originally Posted by Ambler

Permission to sail to Malvinas takes about a week to process. I have seen two and these are rather quirky and include an end date. If the permission is not granted prior to sailing to (or back to) Argentina from South Georgia and or Falkland Islands a fine of $5,000 US must be paid on arrival. Permission will not be granted if the vessel calls into the Falklands and wishes to sail to Argentina next, even if they plan to clear into Chile first! The last 5 ports must be stated on arrival. Fines have been imposed on vessels entering Argentina if they have transited through the Falklands.
I believe the Argies will go to the UN with these permissions one day and use them as some sort of proof that all these vessels recognise Argentina as the sovereign administrator of the Falklands (Malvinas) and South Georgia.

My advice if entering the Beagle is to enter via P. Williams Chile and travel by ferry or charter plane if you wish to visit Ushuaia Argentina, then return to your vessel and cruise the Chilean channels North. Food must not be brought into Chile but may be consumed on board after entering with your vessel. So doing a shop in Ushuaia for food and bringing it back to your boat could be an issue.

Is this the same "Ambler" that was down the beagle in 88? Stannik and Cora? , if so I remember your advice re ushuaia being a collection of junk shops with a shadey yacht club, was on the kiwi yacht "the alderman"

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, sfnz.

[Wetdoc]

Sent to Noonsite:
Very often complaints are published about the controls of sailboats in Ushuaia.
This is a good reason: many foreigners working as sailing charters in Argentina are now in Uruguayan ports not to exceed a period of time here.
These days they have sent subliminal advertising in local forums, and as I see them so can members of the custom office of Ushuaia. That's why this season is going to have tight controls in Ushuaia.
Lots of examples in Google, searching cruiser sailboat Ushuaia

Wetdoc, from Buenos Aires