Can sailing upwind in 20 knots be fun?

[Tessellate]

I've observed surprisingly few cruising boats sail upwind (in any condition), and only a very small number sail upwind in 20 knots (true wind) or more.

This is understandable, since sailing upwind in higher winds and short, steep waves - in sounds or straits where you have to tack every 20-30 minutes - is difficult and uncomfortable work. And a typical cruising boat often has only 2 crew, you and a partner.

But surely some people do it? What I'm wondering is does anyone actually enjoy it and find it relatively comfortable? And if so, what did you do (for your boat or your skills) that made it something you could consider fun?

[Sailmonkey]

I've always enjoyed sailing close hauled, winds of 18-20, reefed down. Really the only thing we've changed to make tacking pleasant were new larger winches. If I'm not trying to pinch every degree out of the boat, I'll tack, trim, then set the autopilot and hide under the dodger, but then that takes some of the fun out of it.

[JPA Cate]

For me, it's fun, for a while. In 20 true, we'd have one reef in the main and be using the staysail.

This may not be a popular opinion, but I think cruisers who have never had their heart in racing mainly motorsail to windward, or just motor. Most don't care about sail shape, either, and this is at least partly due to not having raced and learned what to look for, and how to drive their boat efficiently. IMO, most don't care to spend what it costs to get really good sails. The expense, is stupid, for someone who doesn't care about the results.

Also, many cruisers come to sailing late in life and are seeking the freedoms the lifestyle has to offer. They take basic sailing instruction, and think they're good to go. What they miss out on by not having started out in small boats and worked their way up is developing an instinctive understanding of what is happening, what the boat needs to perform well and to be easy on gear.

I understand this may sound elitist, sorry about that. We are pretty frugal, generally, but lashed out to treat ourselves, at our advanced age, to a really good set of sails. I do not regret it, but it was a lot of money for us.

The baggier your sails are, the harder it is to get the boat to go to windward, so it's really a vicious circle.

The other day, I had a chuckle: the owner of a performance catamaran posted in one of their threads about catamarans, that often he was the only one sailing to windward, and loved passing them --especially those motoring. Why did I laugh? Because we do the same thing to big heavy monos, lazybones monos & cats who don't even remove their sailcovers, and the occasional cat, and I like it, too! [And yes, I did get my start in sailing as racing crew on round the buoys club racing.]

Ann

[Paul Elliott]

We've sailed many miles close-hauled into 20+ kt winds. It can be fun, but it's a different kind of fun.

[Obi Wan]

I think so (and single-handed no less), but I'm a little different. I also like hang gliding, paragliding, and flew fighters for a living (at night, really low and fast).

My point is...I think it depends on what kind of person you are. Do you sail because you like being on the water, and just enjoying the peace and quiet, or do you like to feel like Santiago battling the waves by yourself?

(of course, you can enjoy both of those).

[Tessellate]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

We've sailed many miles close-hauled into 20+ kt winds. It can be fun, but it's a different kind of fun.

Paul (S/V Valis), did you (and your crew) enjoy it from the very first time, or did you make changes that made it enjoyable? If so were those changes more related to your boat's equipment, or your skills?

[four winds]

Upwind in 20, great fun. But I prefer to reserve that for a day on the bay. Have blast for a few hours and get a good workout singlehanded. Twenty will put the gunwale down but who cares, ain't racing or trying to cook.

When going coastal to the next spot, especially if an overnighter, I wait for an offshore wind with apparent wind just ahead of the beam. Preferably wind that lasts all night. Twelve knots will do, eighteen is sweet, and twenty needs reduced sail to keep the gunwale dry. Get pointed in the right direction, auto pilot on, and let the boat take me there. Best way when singlehanded I think.

Once, when the forcast didn't hold, I did 48 hours instead of 14 upwind dodging a train of isolated storms with no engine. Got to anchor at 0100. Fell onto the setee and was out before my head hit the pillow.

I'll wait for wind and waves on the beam and save the bashing for the bay.


Edit to add,..... of course extended off shore passages would be a different story I suppose, haven't done them. But would think I would have a dodger and a different plan. And hopefully a good mate along, ...... And some new sails.

[kmacdonald]

I sail upwind in 20 kts with one reef or two if its real gusty also. Jib only. I like it because I lash the tiller and she sails herself like she is on rails. It's great when single handing. She can sail herself off the wind but not as well. Downwind-still working on that.

[Barra]

At the risk of turning this into yet another mono vs multi debate (please dont!)

I used to sail my 32 foot mono upwind in 20 TWS but only with the boys on board. It was fun, heeled over, feel for the groove, hand steering the seas and gusts etc. Great day out.

When the admiral was on board we had to avoid this as she hated the heeling. Most of her female friends were the same. Of course when coastal cruising this became an issue as it made it pretty hard to get places at times. So we would go to 2 reefs ease the traveller and putt along but stress levels would be elevated to the point where we would avoid sailing to wind in 20 knots if at all possible ie wait it out, change destination etc

Now we have the cat she sits at the cockpit table and is chilled out. Shes even prepared meals in these conditions while I sail close hauled in the same winds and i get to have a blast sailing a performance cat. (NB not all cats will let you do this - the fat hull condos will not be as nice a motion unless you go up quite a few sizes)

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by Tessellate

Paul (S/V Valis), did you (and your crew) enjoy it from the very first time, or did you make changes that made it enjoyable? If so were those changes more related to your boat's equipment, or your skills?

I can't remember the very first time for me, but generally one is initially nervous in high winds (overcanvassed, heeling excessively, getting drenched, etc.) Well, that's more the case in 30 kts, but even in 20 kts it can be intense. You then learn to reef appropriately, crack off a bit (especially depending on the seas), and you get used to it. Pretty soon it feels exhilarating, and you appreciate the joy and excitement -- it can be almost spiritual. Some of my best experiences have been sailing hard in the middle of the ocean at night, just me, the boat, and the elements (and the sleeping crew).

And sometimes it's just a slog, and you merely have to get through it, or wait for better conditions if you can. Mental state is hugely important.

[gjordan]

I have done too much of it and cant say that I like it for more than an hour or so. A 6 day stretch of double reefed main and storm jib, close hauled against heavy trades was miserable. I arrived in Hawaii about 10 lbs lighter than when I left the Tuamotus and I was pretty skinny to begin with back then. If it had not been for the wind vane and a good dodger, it would not have been tolerable. I think all cruising boats should go to weather reasonably well, but if I can avoid it, I will. Ugh, this brings back bad memories. _____Grant.

[Panope]

I'm always having fun sailing upwind - no matter the wind speed. Bashing is great!

What did I do to make it fun? I added a pilothouse.

The only problem is trying to get somewhere - upwind. This boat has fundamentaly poor windward sailing performance that cannot be improved (even if I had a racing background, Ann) so motor-sailing is often required.

Perhaps some of the things that make a boat sail well to windward are also resonpsible for a less than "fun" ride?

Steve

[Paul L]

Sailing to weather sux. Just ask the many cruising boats that just did the seasonal 7-10 day passage from Fiji, New Cal, Tonga to New Zealand. No one likes to have to beat into the seas offshore. Make it as romantic as you want, but I still think it sux.

[sck5]

I think a lot of cruisers have crappy old sails that may be whitish and triangular but don't have a lot else going for them. First thing I did when I got each of the two cruising boats I have had was get new sails. It makes sailing upwind possible and actually fun. You can point reasonably and get where you want to go fast. If I had the sails the boat came with I would motor too. You need good sails to be happy sailing.

By the way, a delivery captain I sailed with once said "Diesel is cheap. Sails are expensive" Maybe that has something to do with it too.

[Don C L]

I like it, but its best to have comfortable foul weather gear and/or dodger, a newish set of sails, a reef in the main and good job and a slender hull, not too flat... oh that's my boat! Except I'd like a little deeper keel with a little lower ballast... and I'd like a dodger... Santa, you listening?