Routing New England to Florida offshore

[Unity]

We are going to move a friends Beneteau 50 from Rhode Island to Florida - more like a delivery than a pleasure cruise. I am helping as crew. This will be around Nov 10th (pending weather). What recommendations for routes or web sites/books might some of you have?

This will be my first offshore trip (my own boat will be departing for the Caribbean a year later so I want the experience). We will have two seasoned crew aboard who have done this trip many times, but I’m wanting to build my own understanding of options so I can both participate in the planning and also vet if I trust their plans (the owner of the boat, who does not have the experience needed, knows them well but I do not).

I have the various cruising/routing books from Jimmy Cornell as well as the pilots but I’m interested in more specific recommendations, such as how far offshore should we travel (I prefer staying away from shore dangers/traffic) and what should we considering on the route?

I believe around Cape Hatteras the weather is tricky depending on the Gulf Stream so thoughts especially around there and how to think about the Gulf Stream are greatly appreciated - though maybe (likely?) there are other things to consider.

We will have full weather routing services and satellite GRIB updates but I’d rather trust my knowledge than be fully beholden on communications with some third party not on board!

Hoping to focus this discussion on routing and not boat / crew prep (and really hoping to avoid the inevitable Beneteau “blue water” debate!).

Thx!

[skipmac]

I think to give the best response, at least for me, it would help to clarify and little more the plan for the trip.

You describe this as more like a delivery than a pleasure cruise and ask about offshore. So how much like a delivery? Is the plan to sail non-stop or stop every day or three or five? How much time is the owner planning for the trip; one week, two, three? How far offshore are they talking?

In a well found boat with good luck, good weather and good crew the trip can be done in a week if sailing non-stop. However, don't forget the old adage, the most dangerous thing on a cruising boat is a schedule. Especially in a fall trip from NE to FL or the Caribbean weather can be a killer. You are threading the needle between the end of the hurricane season and the beginning of winter storms and nor'easters. The two often overlap. Typically every 3-4 fours in the annual fall boat migration south one or the other weather pattern hits and a boat is lost. This is more of a problem in the offshore route from NE to the VI and eastern Caribbean but only because that route is much farther from shelter leaving the boats with nothing to do but tough it out. I heard lots of experienced sailors say just leave late Oct and you're fine but history doesn't bear this out.

This is not to say that the trip is guaranteed death and destruction but it does require attention to weather and routing to minimize the risks. For weather and several other reasons, especially since the destination is Florida, I don't recommend routing far offshore but instead staying closer in. This time of year you can't count on 3-5 days max for a really good weather forecast so staying closer to shore allows you to duck in for shelter if bad weather threatens. Along the east coast there are only a few places where you have to stay offshore to avoid shoals (Hatteras is one significant area). Most of the commercial traffic is east/west as the big boats enter and leave the large east coast ports so staying a little closer in doesn't expose you to that much more traffic. Past Hatteras if you try to make a straight line course to south FL you will be right in the Gulf Stream fighting a 1.5-3 kt counter current and exposed to really nasty seas if you get winds out of the north running against the stream.

If I was trying to make this trip as fast as safely possible I would:

1. Wait for a good weather window, head south from RI and take up a course for Hatteras.

2. Approaching Hatteras be prepared to duck in for shelter if the weather deteriorates

3. At Hatteras if the weather looks iffy go inside to the ICW and come out again at Morehead City.

4. South from Hatteras follow the coast line to avoid the Gulf Stream. Along the SC/GA coasts I might stay 20-30 miles off to avoid some of the shoals, unlit fish haven buoys and local traffic, mainly shrimpers.

5. Starting around Cape Canaveral hug the coast a little closer, again to avoid the Gulf Stream. From Ft Pierce/Jupiter the closer to the coast the better.

Should be a great trip as long as the weather cooperates.

[s/v Moondancer]

My wife and I have done this trip twice aboard our Tayana 55 which is too big for the ICW.

The trip is dominated by the oncoming winter weather, in 11 years of off-shore cruising the second worse storm was off New Jersey and its strength, F9-10, was totally unpredicted, and the Gulf Stream.

While we prefer to be well out of sight of land much of this trip, especially in Florida, has to be close in to stay out of the Gulf Stream. Close in there is often a south going counter-current. In Florida, we often sailed inside the 60-100 ft contour line but never in a strong easterly.

Twice going south we have rounded Hatteras within sight of land...there are red markers in 60 ft of water marking the dangerous shoals and the current is neutral or south going. It takes almost two days to get around Hatteras so a solid weather window is needed.

On both occasions that we did the trip, we had to duck in to avoid bad weather, once into Beaufort and once into Jacksonville. The recent hurricane might complicate going into the Carolina ports.

None of the entries on the East Coast, even the major ones such as Jacksonville and Miami are much fun in bad weather, I found St Augustine to be very difficult.

Good luck

[hellosailor]

There are a number of online links to satellite images of the Gulf Stream. Rashly assuming you won't have satellite or internet live on board, you can still access these ahead of time and plan to stay outside the Gulf Stream, or as you get down to Florida, keep inside of it, and that should give you an extra two knots of speed, effectively.

But hurricane season does go till November 30th, keeping a flexible schedule and bearing in mind that many inlets will not be safe in any heavy weather, is still a consideration. Having multiple contingency plans and staying flexible are important.

And presumably, the boat has already been shaken down and everything prepped as needed.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by s/v Moondancer

My wife and I have done this trip twice aboard our Tayana 55 which is too big for the ICW.

The trip is dominated by the oncoming winter weather, in 11 years of off-shore cruising the second worse storm was off New Jersey and its strength, F9-10, was totally unpredicted, and the Gulf Stream.

While we prefer to be well out of sight of land much of this trip, especially in Florida, has to be close in to stay out of the Gulf Stream. Close in there is often a south going counter-current. In Florida, we often sailed inside the 60-100 ft contour line but never in a strong easterly.

Twice going south we have rounded Hatteras within sight of land...there are red markers in 60 ft of water marking the dangerous shoals and the current is neutral or south going. It takes almost two days to get around Hatteras so a solid weather window is needed.

On both occasions that we did the trip, we had to duck in to avoid bad weather, once into Beaufort and once into Jacksonville. The recent hurricane might complicate going into the Carolina ports.

None of the entries on the East Coast, even the major ones such as Jacksonville and Miami are much fun in bad weather, I found St Augustine to be very difficult.

Good luck

I think he’s better off staying inside the stream. Up at RI he’d have to go halfway to Bermuda to cross it and if he goes inside at Hatteras it makes some sense to stay inside the rest of the way.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Suijin

I think he’s better off staying inside the stream. Up at RI he’d have to go halfway to Bermuda to cross it and if he goes inside at Hatteras it makes some sense to stay inside the rest of the way.

Have to agree. For the trip mentioned by the OP going outside the Gulf Stream would add a lot of miles to the trip and take him very far from shelter in case something kicked up.

[Unity]

Thanks everyone for the sound advice. To answer a few questions:

- We do not have a schedule and will wait / pull in as needed for weather.

- I believe the rig is 68 feet but need to confirm that. Might limit some ICW options, though personally I would prefer offshore.

- We have an Iridium Go for Internet so can get weather updates.

- The boat is sound and shaken out. Wouldn’t say every possible contingency is prepared for (eg. no emergency rudder) but do have epirb/raft/ditch bag/JSD/jacklines/etc and jackets with strobe, AIS SART and strobe (AIS on mothership). Rig is recently inspected, going dry in a few weeks for full hull inspection, etc. Have around 180 gals fuel and 250 gals water. Will have provisions for 2-3x expected duration.

Again - thanks for the advice.

[Bleemus]

Rhode Island --> Bermuda --> Florida

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Unity

Thanks everyone for the sound advice. To answer a few questions:

- We do not have a schedule and will wait / pull in as needed for weather.

- I believe the rig is 68 feet but need to confirm that. Might limit some ICW options, though personally I would prefer offshore.

- We have an Iridium Go for Internet so can get weather updates.

- The boat is sound and shaken out. Wouldn’t say every possible contingency is prepared for (eg. no emergency rudder) but do have epirb/raft/ditch bag/JSD/jacklines/etc and jackets with strobe, AIS SART and strobe (AIS on mothership). Rig is recently inspected, going dry in a few weeks for full hull inspection, etc. Have around 180 gals fuel and 250 gals water. Will have provisions for 2-3x expected duration.

Again - thanks for the advice.

68' rig eliminates any ICW. This will be an outside trip.

You can enter many of the harbors but for most of them (a few exceptions) you will have to anchor or tie up before any bridges.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Bleemus

Rhode Island --> Bermuda --> Florida

Not my preference.

- It will add a lot of miles to the trip, approximately a 1250 nm trip to a 1650 nm trip.

- It would require crossing the Gulf Stream twice.

- It would put you far offshore and far from any shelter if a late hurricane or early cold front hits.

[Cheechako]

As you noted , Hatteras and south for a ways can be the pits. The Stream against the wind and unpredicted strong winds make a washing machine. It feels like you are moving fast but over the ground you are hardly moving. You can hug the beach south of Hatteras to move but, eventually there are two shoals that go out like 10-20 miles IIRC. Without local knowledge I was unwilling to cross those shoals. I've often wondered how far out you would have to go to really get out of the stream effect.

[jackheape]

That mast height preempts the ICW. The time of year you are talking about I would stay close inshore until I got to the VaCapes so I could duck in if needed. Then head SE until you get to about 73 deg West.That gets you past the Gulfstream usually (check the current position of the stream of course) and well off Cape Hatteras. I would not try to shave Hatteras. Many times when I was in the navy and on maneuvers in the VaCapes op areas we got called in to escort or rescue some small boat getting battered to hell in the stream off of Hatteras. There is a reason the CG has one of their biggest bases at Elizabeth City. Anyway, once you hit West 73 then turn SW to cross the stream avoiding Cape Hatteras, Lookout, and Fear. Stay just offshore the rest of the way to FL. Both close inshore legs usually have a SW current. And of course always watch the weather. Good luck.

[Gaia]

It is well reasoned replies like all of the above that keep me going back to C.F. every day.

We sailed this route way back when with GAIA, our junk rigged Gazelle however because of her short masts were able to cherry pick the route going inside and outside more or less at will. We also had loads of time, one of the most important resources a sailor cann possess.

Good luck and enjoy and thanks for asking an interesting question particularly at this time of the year

Jim

[Suijin]

As Skip mentioned the ICW is out but not innumerable ocean ports along it. For example, Cape May, Norfolk, Hampton, Beaufort/Morehead City, Georgetown, Southport, Charleston, etc. Plenty of choices.

Going to Bermuda in November is nuts if you don't have to. You're crossing an area that is a hotbed of fall gale development and you're needlessly far offshore. If you're trying to get east to the eastern Caribbean that's one thing, but to Florida? Stay coastal if you have the time. You may fight the prevailing winds a bit more but it's worth it.

[Symphony]

Agreed: stay inside the Stream. Heck, a gale is predicted to develop in two days, starting west of Bermuda and heading north of Bermuda up to Nova Scotia and north.... and it's not even near winter season yet!