Videos on re-cutting sails?

[gjordan]

Does anyone know of videos/books on re-cutting sails. I talked to Sailrite and they have videos on making sails but nothing on re-cutting. I want to learn how to do this, both as a skill and a financial necessity. Any ideas??? ____Grant.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Much, or rather most of it is done by eye, & experience. Including trial & error. I did ask about this myself a while back, here http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...re-143624.html And wound up not pursuing it formally, as it's easier to either ask a mate who's a sailmaker for a bit of help. Or to simply try having a go at it myself, at least by myself when my eye for sail shapes is in practice. And so long as the cloth of a sail is in decent shape, you can try re-shaping a sail a few times. Even going back to the original shape prior to attempting the re-cut so long as you don't add so many holes to the cloth via the sewing machine, that the fabric now is grossly understrength.

Usually you can tune mains by doing mild recuts if at all, in conjunction with adding longer, more, & or, stiffer battens. That & re-tuning the rig a bit, assuming that your spar is flexible enough to tune it's shape underway, in order to help the main's shape.

Jibs are a bit trickier, but also benefit from it more when it's done well. Though you can also take many jibs that are slightly oversized & make some sweet half assed reaching sails. Ones that hank on to conventional stays, or Solent stays. Be they wire, or Dyneema.
Sometimes they also can be cut down to use as staysails.

And kites are usually dead in the sense of having UV cooked fabric by the time one thinks about re-cutting them for purposes of better shape.

[fallingeggs]

Originally Posted by gjordan

Does anyone know of videos/books on re-cutting sails. I talked to Sailrite and they have videos on making sails but nothing on re-cutting. I want to learn how to do this, both as a skill and a financial necessity. Any ideas??? ____Grant.

Sailrite does have a video on recutting a jib. Watched myself, on YouTube, a few weeks ago.

[gjordan]

Uncivilized, Since I do have all hank on,s and I can borrow a theater stage to work on, I think I will give it a try. When I recently bought this boat it came with pretty trashed sails. I started looking for some extra equipment and ended up buying winches and a whole pickup truck load of sails. Most are just a little oversize, but in pretty good condition, so think I will play with the trashed sails first and then do some serious work on the good cloth. Thanks for the advice._____ Fallingeggs!, I will be doing the You Tube search today. I am surprised that the fellow at Sailrite said they didnt have any on re-cutting. Thanks to both of you. ______Grant.

[gjordan]

I found the Sailrite video on line. I dont know why they said they didnt have one. Oh Well. It was a good video to watch. The CAD programs look good but are probably way beyond my old computer and my old brain. I am going to order THE SAILMAKERS APPRENTICE. I can see that having the theater stage will make this project much easier. I will try to post again in a couple of months and tell how well it went, or say how silly it was of me to do this. I think it will work out well. Thanks guys. _____Grant.

[Kestrahl]

Re-cutting sails is becoming a thing of the past with a lot of traditional sailmakers retiring and being replaced by sales reps for big companies with CAD designers and offshore manufacturing. Labor prices in the western world can make re-cutting not worth the cost compared to buying new.
Re-cutting can mean changing one sail into another, making a smaller sail out of a bigger sail etc. Or can mean re-shaping a old sail to have a new shape and better efficiency. If say exactly what you want to do then maybe I can offer more assistance.

[triciarob]

Originally Posted by fallingeggs

Sailrite does have a video on recutting a jib. Watched myself, on YouTube, a few weeks ago.

Yes I watched it a couple of years ago and used what I saw there to re cut a sail for my boat. The sail was a yankee from a much larger boat and I cut it down to fit my boat and Profurl.

The re cut sail wasn't perfect for my boat but we used it for two years going from Malaysia to Hong Kong and back via the Philippines.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Kestrahl, do you have any tips on reseaming a jib in order to return it's shape back to normal? Meaning so that it doesn't look like a DD cup bra. Ditto on mains.

[Kestrahl]

Normally it stretches around the battens lower down so you take the pockets off, slice underneath and 100mm or so forward. Take out the bag by overlapping the slice using some double sided tape and sail repair tape. Stringing the sail up to check shape. Once happy bandage and install slightly longer batten and pocket. The top normally bags out across the whole cord so you can slice the entire width. If no battens then unpick the seams to where the stretch is and do the same thing. The sail normally ends up with a tighter leech the before so if done properly you normally take the bag out but the aft end of the seam is less overlapped than before and needs wedges.

[gjordan]

Kestrahl and Uncivilized, The boat that I am re-fitting is a Tartan 34C, and over their production run they shortened the main from 13.5 foot down to 10.5 foot (I think it is 10.5) rumored to be from IOR rules and a weather helm issue. That is a lot of sail area to loose for a rule advantage or to not have to reef early. I really like light air sailing, so since the main is tired and the boom is funky, I bought a longer Procter boom and got 7 sails with it. They all look pretty good, but a little too large so that is what got me going on re-cutting. Sunday we are taking all 12 sails to the local community theater where we volunteer and examine and measure them all and decide which I will work on and which I will sell or maybe scrap. I took a quick look at the original short footed main the other day and think I will go over it and fix whatever is needed , pull the battens and store it to use in case I blow out the newer/larger main. I dislike trysails, so a back up main is handy to have. I am also adding a removable inner forestay so I will have to see if I can turn one of the jibs into a staysail. The only sail I might build new is a nylon drifter and I might even dismantle a spinnacre and start from scratch with the cloth. I am going to stick with hank on sails and not do a solent stay or any other modification other than the removable inner. This is an economic necessity for me since I am on a somewhat limited fixed income, but I also like doing as much of my own work as possible. I think I will end up with a 6 or 7 sail inventory at only a little more than the cost of 1 brand new sail. I guess I am one of the poster boys for the Frugal Sailor thread. I will know more after laying everything out on Sunday. To be continued! ______Grant.

[gjordan]

I was able to unfold and inspect/measure about half of the sails yesterday and they were just about what I suspected them to be. The original main is very tired, but I will refurbish it and stow it as a spare. Two mains from the extra purchase are in good to very good condition but about 4 foot long on the luff so I think I will sell one and cut down the other to use. The Tartan came with a self tending jib that was no longer used on a club, but it has a set of reef points in it. It was in much better shape than I originally thought so I will remove the jack line that is not needed and it will be a keeper. The storm jib from the Tartan looks like it has never been out of the bag so the storm jib from the other boat will be sold. It is in good condition. The second boat was larger than the Tartan but a fractional rig, so it turns out that the headsail luffs are almost the same. I inspected one genoa and wasnt too impressed and it seems to be a very large LP but I have 5 more headsails to go over so I am sure I will get one or two that can be used or re-cut and used. I think that I will have to wait until the rig is back up to determine anything about what I need for a staysail. I am looking forward to doing this work and I am sure I will have a lot of questions along the way. _____Grant.

[gjordan]

I bought a copy of THE SAILMAKERS APPRENTICE, and it is a very interesting book, but not a lot on re-cutting sails. It does show a lot of really beautiful handwork and other traditional things but light on what I need. I recently obtained a bunch of cruising books and read thru all of the sail information and had to laugh when almost every expert gave a different opinion. It was interesting, but not technically informative. I finally went to my local small town library and took out a book called CARE AND REPAIR OF SAILS by Jeremy Howard-Williams. It gives more information on where and how to re-cut to get a good shape , than any other writing that I have seen. It also talks a lot about SPIKING the sail to spread it. The theater that I work at would not be happy with me sticking a bunch of ice picks into the stage, so I am going to have to figure out a different streching method. I am going to see if I can find a copy of this book to purchase. It will be handy to have around. Onward and upward, ____Grant.

[Adelie]

Thanks for the reference to the Howard-Williams book, already ordered a copy.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Sadly, I've not seen many books on sailmaking that describe, or explain what goes into their design & construction. At least not information which helps a neophyte build or recut their own sails. Unlike is the case with rigging, or boat building. But I sure would welcome it if anyone knew of some good texts on such subjects.

As to stretching out your sails. Sometimes weights will work. Though they need to be heavy in order to be effective. And try & place them so that their contact footprint with the floor is as small as possible, since force = weight/area. Which helps to boost their efficacy.

You might also look for spots to install 3-5 padeyes (or a few less), even if they're "temporary". With temporary meaning for the day, or for the winter. Especially since it's not too tough to install some "threads" into a floor, wall, or beam for their fasteners, using epoxy in order to beef up the substrata that they're to be bolted to. So that you can install & remove them with some regularity. AKA Hardware Bonding. Or, if you have the latitude to do so, you can also bond nuts directly into various materials.
And with most such holes, they're easy to fairly seamlessly patch, when the job is done. Much like the holes from picture frame mounts in drywall.

The other thing to use with both of the above, is to rig up several tackles. One per padeye, or other hard point for a sail's corner. And then run a line from a hard point to the sail's corner, with the tackle at one end or the other to tension things with. Thus you can "tie" a corner of the sail to something which is quite distant, & still be able to easily tension things without drilling holes into the floor for padeye bolts.

[gjordan]

I hope to be able to put some pad eyes in unimportant spots around the stage and use tackles. I think the manager will go for that. His son builds boats, so he is all for my project. I would again recommend the Howard -Williams book. I was looking through it again last night and almost went crazy trying to find the information about modifying mains. I thought maybe I had seen the information in another book and cost Adelie money for nothing. After searching I located what I had seen before in the appendix, not in the chapter on re-cutting. It gives 11 different scenarios on re-cutting a main with explanations of how and why and the level of difficulty. Between this book and the details of the SAILMAKERS APPRENTICE I think the project is covered. In going over the headsails that I have, I am thinking I wont have to do any mods other than for a staysail. Now if it just works out the way I plan (maybe) I will end up with a good suit of sails. Hope,Hope! _____Grant.