Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 29-11-2019, 07:15   #1
Registered User
 
YARGESOL's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: San Carles de la Rapita,Spain
Boat: Imexus 28, Malcolm Tennant 46 Timeliner cat
Posts: 192
1400AH LiFeYPO4 - make it sence?

Good day! Planning to rebuilt my electrical & solar bank I came to the fact, that Winston 1000AH pack is foolly booked for 1/2 year ahead(in Europe). 700AH is available.
Make it sence to go for 2 packs combining them in parallel/series and getting 12V 1400AH power bank ? Of cause, it's more money...But, counting all together (inverter,solar,controller,appliances etc) not dramatic. It weights about the same as 1000AH (6 kilos more). I have space to located it - will fit my existing bank storage. It will be huge amount of amp/hours. But..
- shall I be capabale to refeed it (I may locate on my ramp 4 LG Neon x360Wt pannels;I have Panda genny 4500Va,but not willing to run it day long.
- will it be much more complicated to control cells , balance them? Or, it will be about the same as 700AH pack ?
I'm trying to mesure XX times before to cut my wallet.
Thanks in advance for good advise
__________________

YARGESOL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2019, 08:36   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,567
Re: 1400AH LiFeYPO4 - make it sence?

In fact it's been stated that for marine use even the 700Ah size cells are not suitable, as in too large.

Contact Winston see what they say.
__________________

john61ct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2019, 13:29   #3
Registered User
 
YARGESOL's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: San Carles de la Rapita,Spain
Boat: Imexus 28, Malcolm Tennant 46 Timeliner cat
Posts: 192
Re: 1400AH LiFeYPO4 - make it sence?

Yes,I noted the same at nordkyndesign,and considering Sinopoly 300ah 3p3s as an option
YARGESOL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2019, 13:33   #4
Registered User
 
YARGESOL's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: San Carles de la Rapita,Spain
Boat: Imexus 28, Malcolm Tennant 46 Timeliner cat
Posts: 192
Re: 1400AH LiFeYPO4 - make it sence?

I mean 3p4s
YARGESOL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2019, 14:12   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Kiel, Germany
Boat: Custom 48ft Catamaran, Farrier F32 RX
Posts: 50
Re: 1400AH LiFeYPO4 - make it sence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
In fact it's been stated that for marine use even the 700Ah size cells are not suitable, as in too large.
What is the argument here?

Paul
toolbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2019, 14:17   #6
Registered User
 
YARGESOL's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: San Carles de la Rapita,Spain
Boat: Imexus 28, Malcolm Tennant 46 Timeliner cat
Posts: 192
Re: 1400AH LiFeYPO4 - make it sence?

There is no arguements. I asked to comment possible installation 2p4s x 700ah LiFeyPo4. And,seems like its too much power and too large for sailing
YARGESOL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2019, 14:26   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,567
Re: 1400AH LiFeYPO4 - make it sence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by toolbar View Post
What is the argument here?
If you mean "why too big"?

More susceptible to wear from the extreme shocks & vibration.

180Ah should be OK in general.

But asking the specific vendor is best, some may take this into account with their design/construction of more recent models.
john61ct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2019, 14:29   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,567
Re: 1400AH LiFeYPO4 - make it sence?

Since Peukert is hardly a factor with LFP, going to multiple banks is less of a problem than it is with lead.

If you do put lots of cells into one bank, parallel first at the lowest level, if easy redundancy is desired, maximum 3 strings paralleled, just two would be better.
john61ct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2019, 14:20   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 204
Re: 1400AH LiFeYPO4 - make it sence?

Well, I would say too large is not a term used in electrical engineering.
Extreme shocks & vibration also need a definition as they donīt exist on a sail boat neither a catamaran.... unless You get hit by a torpedo

Getting into the subject. I like Your approach and using Nordkyn Design as a guideline for setting parameters.
Obviously there is sufficient prove that also LifePo4 batteries have a memory effect that is supported "BY FACTS" and the corresponding references that can be found here.....
Marine lithium batteries in operation | Nordkyn Design

In consequence those facts should be taken under consideration when cycling LifePo4 batteries.

As a closing statement Eric said....
Quote:
As long as you have the opportunity to recharge properly from time to time, there is no reason why memory effects shouldn’t clear easily and they do. Things become more challenging when you DON’T have the opportunity to recharge to full for very long periods and keep cycling.

I find this statement valid as a base line for the design of Your system and the only thing to be concerned about as far as the size of Your battery bank is the completed charging cycles as indicated.

You have 1440 W of solar. Taking 5 hours of sun per day as an average will give You easy 7 - 8 KW of charging per day.
Well, it might not be enough for 1400 amp as it also will not be enough for 1000 amp but for sure it will be more then enough to charge 700 amp as You never should discharge the battery to 100%.
Now the real question would be.... How many watts/amp hours of Your charging capacity are You actually using every day ?
Even if You use less then 7 KW per day I still like the idea of the 1400 amps.
What I like about a big capacity house bank.
Itīs not only abundance of the system for the rainy days. It also allows me to run all my consumers through the inverter without the need of running the generator or at least I decide when to run the generator.

I also like the Winston batteries. I would start with.....
https://www.ev-power.eu/Winston-12V-...onitoring.html
and see how far it gets me.
Adding another 700 amp is a piece of cake.
What I really like about this BMS is.... itīs very flexible, simple and DIY friendly. The components are considerable cheap and keeping a few control boards for spares on board is not an issue. I can always trouble shoot and fix it myself. So far I have not heard any complaints about this set up.

Furthermore I would prefer the 2 x 700 amp to the 1 x 1000 amp
In a 4s 2p you always have a 2nd battery in case one shuts down or fails.
However I would never use more then 2p as some recommend. Every battery needs control. As those batteries last many cycles when cared for properly on the flip side I always think the longevity of the BMS components in the marine environment is still a big question.

As a side note..... I would consider selling the Panda Gen and go for a Polar DC Gen.
My reasons You can find here.....
https://polarpower.com/products/dc-a...tors/ac-vs-dc/

Mmm, sexy CAT))) plenty of space to play
__________________
Now or Never
warrior 90 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2019, 15:41   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,567
Re: 1400AH LiFeYPO4 - make it sence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by warrior 90 View Post
Extreme shocks & vibration also need a definition as they donīt exist on a sail boat neither a catamaran.... unless You get hit by a torpedo
What a crock.

Such forces are **much** greater than in a land vehicle.
__________________

john61ct is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
enc

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Merged LiFeYPO4 1000Ah Winston prismatic cells and all electric galley... CatNewBee Lithium Power Systems 373 Today 15:41
Victron to replace Xantrex for LiFeYPO4 service YARGESOL Lithium Power Systems 0 12-02-2019 05:56
alternator sence wire scratcher Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 4 08-05-2015 13:43
Specific Question about Voltage of LiFeYPO4 Cells JoeFish Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 11 18-06-2014 18:08

Advertise Here


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:00.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.