Aesthetic design question: big arch at stern of sailing boat

[Bob666]

Hi!

Got this boat:
NORLIN 37 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com


Constructing this Arch to put lots of solar panel on top of:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Byb...ew?usp=sharing


Our blacksmith are asking us whether to put the horisontal tubes on the sides perpendicular to the water line, or follow the boat?

Only a few degrees (if any) of difference, but what would be most gentle to the eye, when watching the boat from the side, say 50 m away?

Poll:
1. Perpendicular to water line
2. Follow boat's lines.

Cheers

[Steadman Uhlich]

I think you meant "parallel" (=) to the water line, instead of "perpendicular" (+).

Given that there are numerous horizontal lines on the boat (boot stripe, toe rail, life lines) I think following the lines of the boat would be most pleasing in this case.

[Paul L]

As far as I can see the boat lines are parallel to the waterline at the aft quarter. You gonna want the panels level anyway.

Either way you still end up with what Bob Perry kindly refers to as crap on de back. Just the price you pay to put up the extra gear.

[Pete7]

Definitely not perpendicular as it will look really odd and very much home made. Either sloping backwards like the drawing or slopping forward like some of the Hunters I think. We had a number of options when fitting ours but ended up with sloping forwards.

The panels don't have to be flat, indeed ours aren't, they slope forward because on her pontoon berth she always south. Also it makes it easier to clean and the rain water to run off rather than pool. I have fitted the panel using U bolts so in theory the panel can the tilted from about 20 deg forward to 90 deg back.

Pete

[Cottontop]

Parallel to handrail/lifelines.

[barnakiel]

Horizontal. Otherwise it looks sloppy.

b.

[Davidhoy]

Originally Posted by Cottontop

Parallel to handrail/lifelines.

I agree with this.

Curious about your plans, and I'm looking at something similar for the back of my Morgan 462. What is the height above the deck of the top of your arch? I've been eyeing the arch kits from Atlantic Towers and FishOnSports, both very reasonably priced and seem like the would fit quite well on my boat. They boat seem to come out at around 77" from the deck to the bottom of the arch, and 81" to the top. I'm planning on using my arch to lift the dinghy, mount solar panels and antennas, etc. I'd love to compare notes, if you're game...

-David

[LarsD]

I think you need to follow the lines of the push pit. I will on ours...

[Boston Blackie]

Have you figured the size of panels that will fit the plan? Your IOR stern is pretty narrow, and the fore and aft width at the top of your sketch is also modest.

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by Davidhoy

I agree with this.

Curious about your plans, and I'm looking at something similar for the back of my Morgan 462. What is the height above the deck of the top of your arch? I've been eyeing the arch kits from Atlantic Towers and FishOnSports, both very reasonably priced and seem like the would fit quite well on my boat. They boat seem to come out at around 77" from the deck to the bottom of the arch, and 81" to the top. I'm planning on using my arch to lift the dinghy, mount solar panels and antennas, etc. I'd love to compare notes, if you're game...

-David

Notes from another M46x arch designer...

(see it here: Pictures: Flying Pig Early Refit + Projects/Research_Before_Building_Our_Arch )

Ours was very tall; we've noticed many other boats following our design, or so it seemed on a glance. We made it that tall to make visibility astern with the dinghy up a given. In the end, it could have been one layer (shorten by one bar) shorter. See it here: Pictures: Flying Pig Early Refit + Projects/Early_Major_Alterations_Work

Note (apologies) that I wasn't doing project separation in my early refit, so there are other projects going on at the same time. However, you can see its installation and end result starting with the 04-05 subgallery.

The guy who built our arch REALLY annoyed me when it came out that the solar panels/davits would have a notable tilt. However, many years later, that turned out well (well, it would have been better tilted aft, but...) because solar panel makers caution you to have a tilt to them for water runoff which helps keep them clean.

He also did a horrible job; the port top horizontal fore/aft base bar reinforcing has now got a failed weld, and there are some other cracks at other welds. As well (my fault) there wasn't a forward inner-reinforcing structure; I designed it that way to keep the aft deck clear; I'm sure it contributes to my wobbles. That, and the fact that he used tubing instead of pipe, makes it very un-stiff. This many years later I'm still wrestling with how I could help that without disassembly and unwiring, both of which would be MAJOR challenges. If I do, I'll shorten it by the 15" of the top level.

As it happened (fruit for another post after I get all the pictures massaged and up to my gallery), I was able, recently, to upgrade from my 3x Kyocera 370w total panels to 2x Sunpower 360w panels, total 720w in nearly the same footprint, with only minor alterations to the bracket I'd used. Fortunately, my wiring and controller can handle that doubling of wattage.

It has made us (so far, anyway) Honda eu2000i independent, with the lowest end-of-day reading on our Balmar Smartgauge being in the low 90s, but nearly always at 100; before we would have to run 4 hours about every other day, and STILL not be reliably fully charged; analysis by industry knowledgeable folk hearing my description assured me that I'd been chronically undercharging my 4x L16 house bank.

So, I don't know whether your design would be notably visible as different whether parallel to water or toe rail. But be sure to design in a tilt to your panel mount...

L8R

Skip

[KP44]

Originally Posted by Davidhoy

I agree with this.

Curious about your plans, and I'm looking at something similar for the back of my Morgan 462. What is the height above the deck of the top of your arch? I've been eyeing the arch kits from Atlantic Towers and FishOnSports, both very reasonably priced and seem like the would fit quite well on my boat. They boat seem to come out at around 77" from the deck to the bottom of the arch, and 81" to the top. I'm planning on using my arch to lift the dinghy, mount solar panels and antennas, etc. I'd love to compare notes, if you're game...

-David

David

I think your Morgan 46 is very similar to our Kelley-Peterson 46. I am considering the same. I would remove the Monitor and install an autopilot directly on the quadrant belowdecks, making room for davits when we are not traveling. I'd also like to compare thoughts. An arch makes a lot of sense for many uses, including a little crane for parcels or outboards.

[fatherchronica]

I made mine level, and partly because usually when we are anchored the sea surface is a big level background, and partly because the sides have rungs to climb up and inspect or work. I never liked 99 % of arches. Never needed or wanted one until we went cruising. And initially thought it uglified the Mana. But, partially because I designed it, I came to like it and felt it only cluttered the boats looks a little and I suspect causes a little close a winded annoyance to the Monitor. On the other hand, it supports our generator, our Radar, our GPS and wifi, and 2 145 watt solar panels, one of which is hinged to the stern and folds underneath when we are sailing usually. And wherever we go we are approached by other sailors who think it is way more beautiful than I do ( my wife thinks it looks great) and want to inspect it. Ours is aluminum, powder coated bronze to match our other exposed metal which is mostly real bronze.

[bmz]

An additional point if you intend to cruise with this boat. You will need shade; but with end of boom sheeting, you probably will not be able to have a bimini. However, if you extend the platform forward around the backstay as far as you can go without hitting the mainsail, you can achieve almost as much shade as a bimini.

[Alita49DS]

Originally Posted by Paul L

As far as I can see the boat lines are parallel to the waterline at the aft quarter. You gonna want the panels level anyway.

Either way you still end up with what Bob Perry kindly refers to as crap on de back. Just the price you pay to put up the extra gear.

I entirely agree with you. All the stainless steel efforts look like something that Heath Robinson would have been proud of. Or, indeed, someone who cannot spell the word "aesthetic".

That said, there seems to be much that might commend an arch. Does anyone know who makes fibreglass ones so that one can end up with both form and functionality?

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by Paul L

As far as I can see the boat lines are parallel to the waterline at the aft quarter. You gonna want the panels level anyway.

Actually, not.

You need to have a way for rain (snow??) to slide off; they become somewhat self-cleaning in that way, as well. See manufacturers' installation spec sheets; you'll find that level isn't good...