Beneteau 45f5 for Circumnavigation

[YoloSF]

Hello,

I'm looking at a Beneteau 45f5 for a circumnavigation for 4 people. It's 3 cabin with pullman berth (love the pullman berths so much that they became a "must have")

Here's my checklist:

Has:
- SSB
- Generous sail inventory
- fairly new rigging

Needs:
- anchor + rode
- updated electronics (GPS/autopilot/radar/depth-speed-wind)
- watermaker
- solar/wind
- dinghy + outboard

Are there any other major things I'm missing? Can someone give me some ballpark figures for what it needs?

Also, I know it's a production boat, and I'm wondering what kind of structural improvement you might make to make it bluewater worthy?

Thanks

[Sjora]

The 45F5 is plenty "blue water worthy", properly fitted. It is typically the skipper and crew that we have to worry about.

[Neptune's Gear]

In good nic, and despite what some will say, the boat is fine.
Not many vessels circumnavigate with 4 people.
You do not need a large sail selection. Main, Roller furled headsail, spare headsail, Kite or Jennaker, trisail, storm jib, good sail repair kit.
You don't have to have a watermaker - but need good water quantity if not
You need more than 1 anchor and rode
The largest dingy and outboard you can manage. Light weight as you can.

There are HEAPS of things to think about. Here are some

Spares for essential gear
Tools
repair materials
Storm gear
First Aid Kit
Printer/scanner (invaluable to duplicate boat docs etc, esp in SE Asia)
Charts (electronic AND/or paper for your route)
National courtesy flags for countries you'll visit
On board security plan. Hatch locks etc
Power Plan (how much you use, and how to replace it)
Fuel consumption

I know NZ regs are strict, but looking here will give you a good idea;
NZ Safety regs

It took me 6 months the first time... But don't let that put you off!! GO!!

[Sjora]

Originally Posted by Neptune's Gear

There are HEAPS of things to think about. Here are some

Yes, heaps of things. I find the requirement for pullman berth as one of the parameters to be a bit confusing. If we were looking at a new boat today things like tankage, how much hp the diesel has for motoring in heavy seas, the boat's power system (generator, inverter, battery banks), how easy the boat is to maintain at sea (meaning LACK of pushbutton "gadgets" that cause problems), etc., etc., etc.. Pullman berths would be the last thing I'd be worried about.

In January 2006 we (my wife and I) hit a submerged shipping container in the Indian Ocean at around 3:00 in the morning. We thought we had collided with a ship or run aground. There was no water coming in the boat but we had completely lost our helm. The container caused substantial damage to our keel, bent the prop shaft and broke our rudder - tore the bottom of the skeg right off. We dropped the main and sailed her six days into Port Toamasina on the jib and mizzen (couldn't run the Volvo at all) where we were laid up for two months and $30,000 worth of repairs.

Neither of us slept for more than half hour catnaps for those six days because both of us had to be on deck at all times just to handle the boat. When we finally got into port and called for a tow we were both so exhausted that we literally collapsed in the cockpit and could not muster the energy to even get to our feet.

These are the heaps of things. How prepared are you to deal with them because after you spend enough time crossing oceans it's not if it's when. Something will happen that will test every bit of your experience. The boat is not going to save you. I get the distinct impression of somewhat limited experience on this one.

[Neptune's Gear]

Hey Sjora, how come these things are always in the early hours?
We hit a huge log off Borneo, same deal - 1 am, big panick, wtf was that!! no water coming in, etc... Radar was on, AIS was on, but the thing was 99% submerged. Not even sure you would have seen it in the daylight in the broken sea state...

[YoloSF]

Originally Posted by Sjora

Yes, heaps of things. I find the requirement for pullman berth as one of the parameters to be a bit confusing. If we were looking at a new boat today things like tankage, how much hp the diesel has for motoring in heavy seas, the boat's power system (generator, inverter, battery banks), how easy the boat is to maintain at sea (meaning LACK of pushbutton "gadgets" that cause problems), etc., etc., etc.. Pullman berths would be the last thing I'd be worried about.

In January 2006 we (my wife and I) hit a submerged shipping container in the Indian Ocean at around 3:00 in the morning. We thought we had collided with a ship or run aground. There was no water coming in the boat but we had completely lost our helm. The container caused substantial damage to our keel, bent the prop shaft and broke our rudder - tore the bottom of the skeg right off. We dropped the main and sailed her six days into Port Toamasina on the jib and mizzen (couldn't run the Volvo at all) where we were laid up for two months and $30,000 worth of repairs.

Neither of us slept for more than half hour catnaps for those six days because both of us had to be on deck at all times just to handle the boat. When we finally got into port and called for a tow we were both so exhausted that we literally collapsed in the cockpit and could not muster the energy to even get to our feet.

These are the heaps of things. How prepared are you to deal with them because after you spend enough time crossing oceans it's not if it's when. Something will happen that will test every bit of your experience. The boat is not going to save you. I get the distinct impression of somewhat limited experience on this one.

Interesting story, thanks for sharing. It's good to have these reminders every once in a while. No amount of preparation could have prevented this, as "Neptune's Gear" just confirmed with this story though.

I've been overwhelmed with the number of boats out in the market. So by picking something like a pullman berth as a requirement, I'm simply narrowing down my choices. After picking a boat with a pullman berth, then I can look at all the other things you've mentioned. Therefore, although I can't deny the inexperience, I believe my thought process is fairly well reasoned. I get the distinct impression of someone not being welcoming to the newbie inexperienced cruiser who's merely asking for help.

[Sjora]

Darned if I know. I was the one that was on watch that night - relatively calm seas and 10-12 kt breeze. I was getting up every two hours and making my checks. I was sound asleep for about an hour when we hit that container. It threw the boat into about a 45 deg list to port when we hit with two distinct thuds and the second one was not good - we could hear parts breaking.

[Kevin84]

Originally Posted by Sjora

Yes, heaps of things. I find the requirement for pullman berth as one of the parameters to be a bit confusing. If we were looking at a new boat today things like tankage, how much hp the diesel has for motoring in heavy seas, the boat's power system (generator, inverter, battery banks), how easy the boat is to maintain at sea (meaning LACK of pushbutton "gadgets" that cause problems), etc., etc., etc.. Pullman berths would be the last thing I'd be worried about.

In January 2006 we (my wife and I) hit a submerged shipping container in the Indian Ocean at around 3:00 in the morning. We thought we had collided with a ship or run aground. There was no water coming in the boat but we had completely lost our helm. The container caused substantial damage to our keel, bent the prop shaft and broke our rudder - tore the bottom of the skeg right off. We dropped the main and sailed her six days into Port Toamasina on the jib and mizzen (couldn't run the Volvo at all) where we were laid up for two months and $30,000 worth of repairs.

Neither of us slept for more than half hour catnaps for those six days because both of us had to be on deck at all times just to handle the boat. When we finally got into port and called for a tow we were both so exhausted that we literally collapsed in the cockpit and could not muster the energy to even get to our feet.

These are the heaps of things. How prepared are you to deal with them because after you spend enough time crossing oceans it's not if it's when. Something will happen that will test every bit of your experience. The boat is not going to save you. I get the distinct impression of somewhat limited experience on this one.

Actually, this is about his third or fourth thread asking this (or very similar) question. Yolo, if you are serious about this, I suggest you spend some time crewing on a boat to find out what you do and dont like about certain styles. You'll also find out the things you can and can't live without.

[robert sailor]

The draw back of a pullman berth is that the inside sleeper must wake up the outside sleeper if/when they get up at night.

[Sjora]

Originally Posted by YoloSF

No amount of preparation could have prevented this

I get the distinct impression of someone not being welcoming to the newbie inexperienced cruiser who's merely asking for help.

YoloSF, while no amount of preparation can prevent it, you have to be prepared to handle it when it happens. There's a difference.

There is nothing here that is not being welcome to the newbie cruiser. Just please consider the important things and do not narrow your choices based on the berth style. You need to look at this realistically. You want to crew with four people onboard. Ok, so you're going to spend 18, 19, 20 days at sea. How much fresh water are you going to use per person, per day? Don't count on a desalination plant (watermaker). You still have to carry the required amount of water for your passage - the watermaker only helps keep the tanks topped off.

What about fuel? You're going to be motoring some days and with four people onboard you're going to use considerable power. That means running the generator.

How much has your crew sailed together? You're going to test the limits of relationships among crew members.

What I see here, YoloSF, is that you are obsessed with the "perfect" boat instead of the perfect crew. When it comes to boats we have met many couples that have sailed all over the world in 27-30 foot boats with no problem at all. What makes that work is not the boat - it is the fact that the crew is an experienced team.

As far as doing something before you're 30 that we don't do in a lifetime? That doesn't mean anything to me. My wife and I have probably done three circumnavigations in 33 years. But we never got interested in racing or sailing events or doing the ARC, or any of that. For us is the pure love of being on the water. We have stayed at some places awhile and find work there, learn new ways and experience new cultures, then we move on. We don't care about speed records, setting records, we did it first, we did it best, we did it and now we got a feather in our hat. For us it is the pure love of it - nothing else. What is your motivation?

I could go on and on. But pullman berths are way at the bottom of the list with something like this, and that appeared to me to be your primary concern. And that's very confusing to me to make a boat selection based on that.

[downunder]

Tankage is definitely an important critea for long distance sailing. Jerry cans on the rail does not seem seaman like to me.

Cheers

[savoir]

If you are carrying gasoline then jerry cans on the rail is the only way you can safely do it. Go anywhere in the Pacific and boats carrying 10 - 15 jerry cans on deck can be seen every day. When the nearest fuel dock is 500 miles away it makes sense.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by savoir

If you are carrying gasoline then jerry cans on the rail is the only way you can safely do it. Go anywhere in the Pacific and boats carrying 10 - 15 jerry cans on deck can be seen every day. When the nearest fuel dock is 500 miles away it makes sense.

Yes one sees it all the time but that doesn't mean it is good seamanship,

Point is some/the minority of vessels have adequate tankage and it is a factor to consider in a circumnavigation. Proberbly not an issue in Europe, the Med or Caribbean.

Cheers

[Gerrycooper56]

Does the 45f5 have the main traveller in the cockpit or on the cabin top?
I would suggest, being a wimp that a full enclosure is a very important thing to have ranking far above a Pullman berth.

[Sjora]

We have seen lots of people that stow jerry cans of fuel on deck in the lower latitudes and they seem to get away with it just fine. However, if you plan on sailing the North Atlantic or Southern Ocean it is probably not the best idea to stow heavier items that far above the waterline and center of rotation of the hull. You would be better off to refit for additional fuel capacity as low as possible, or select a different boat that has the required tankage.

Even in the lower latitudes you can end up with interesting handling characteristics in some places like the Gulf of Mexico or Indian Ocean, depending on the time of year, with your boat too top heavy. But generally speaking, we see a lot of people that sail the trades do it with no problems.