Is 1800 euros reasonable for a survey of a 53foot sailboat?

[Sojourner]

Ciao again all, thank you so much for the help the last few days... For my second post, I would ask, is 1800 euros a reasonable price for the 1 day long full survey of a 53 foot Amel Super Maramu sailboat? The company seems reputable, and this is their patter to me:

The full Pre-purchase survey incorporates a sea trial including all manoeuvres and main machinery testing, and an out of the water inspection with percussion testing of the hull, and inspection of the running gear. All systems are tested and assessed, including the cosmetic condition of the interior and exterior finish. We would need 1 full day to complete the survey. The detailed report is sent in PDF format (in English) within 24-48 hours of the survey and all pictures taken during the survey can be downloaded from our website via a private link.

It seems pretty standard to me, but again, this is my first purchase... Any thoughts?

Cheers!

[toolbar]

Originally Posted by SYSojourner

Ciao again all, thank you so much for the help the last few days... For my second post, I would ask, is 1800 euros a reasonable price for the 1 day long full survey of a 53 foot Amel Super Maramu sailboat? The company seems reputable, and this is their patter to me:

Where in the world is this?

1800 EUR including call out fee seems reasonable to me. Typing up the report takes time as well.

But it only makes sense, if the surveyor knows Amels in my opinion. There's lots of custom stuff on those boats as far as I know. So someone who has never sailed / owned / refitted one, might be at a loss when trying to find the specific problems.

Paul

[Sojourner]

Hi Paul, it's in France... Regarding Amel familiarity of the surveyor, it can go both ways... fairly few Amels were built vis a vis Bene etc... BUT they are located in France so the odds are better. I shall ask them now

[ReneJK]

France is not a 'cheap' country with regards to labour costs and overall costs

that said , I paid 900 euro for a 2 day survey of our Bene 473 in Lisbon Portugal

[Sojourner]

Haha now if only I could ship it to Portugal, I could save some bucks!

Yes, surveyor has done Amels. So game on!

[Pete7]

No its not cheap but the cost of flying a UK surveyor in plus B&B isn't going to be that much cheaper. If you can find some previous happy customers of the surveyor then actually the survey cost is just a fraction of the purchase price when all things are considered. I think I would bit the bullet and pay it for a good surveyor.

Pete

[2big2small]

It seems too high to me but France can be expensive, especially around the riviera. For that price I would want to make sure on forehand in written that:

1. they will send an experienced rigger up the mast who will inspect every single detail of the standing rigging with magnifying optical instruments, all sail areas, and all the running rigging, not forgetting the furlers

2. that a very seasoned mechanic will thoroughly check both the main engine and genset,

3. that qualified people will inspect the other systems such as water maker, air conditioning, plumbing, electricity, steering system, ground tackle and windlass, keel bolts, etc.

4. that they will measure the humidity inside the hull with the appropriate electronics and not just hammer it a bit which you can do yourself, and that they’ll also visually examine every inch of it looking for osmosis.

5. That the haul-out and any other costs are included in the price and not supplements.

Etc, I’m certainly forgetting stuff.

If for that price you just get a single guy switching all equipment on and off once and then making a show of hammering the hull a bit then you are royally screwed over, and those boating companies are very good at that. If he also declares the hull to be too dirty or equipment to be too innacessible for inspection then you’re screwed too. Basically you need two or three guys to show up in coveralls with tool kits for this price, and not a single guy in immaculate top brand fancy sailing apparel.

If you start asking very detailed questions about what they’ll do you will probably quickly detect whether they’re posers or serious. If they answer with lots of reassurance then they’re posers. If they go into advanced technical detail then they’re probably knowledgeable.

I have read a few surveys when shopping for boats where it was totally clear that the surveyor was clueless about his job and unfortunately there are more of those than serious ones. The fact that it is a company and not an individual also doesn’t inspire confidence. They typically have a lot of staff turn over and work with whoever is cheapest with total disregard of their customers.

Definitely look for online reviews and references before settling on one. I had a survey done for 400 euros, even though on a much smaller and simpler boat. And two guys spent about 5 hours (without going up the rigging or hauling the boat)...

[2big2small]

Which reminds me, those two guys were very knowledgeable and also checked in howfar the boat corresponded to legal requirements, including checking all documentation such as life raft inspection certificates etc. So there’s really a huge amount of things to check if you want a thorough survey, which they definitely owe you for that price.

[CatNewBee]

Sounds reasonable, the haul out is usually not included (extra costs for the travel lift around 1000...1600€). Also usually the boat is hauled out at least 48h in advance to allow the bottom to dry for the humidity analysis.

For a 40ft Catamaran there are prices in France for the survey-only between 1100 ad 1400€ + travel expenses if applicable, 20%VAT included.

The travel lift expenses are calculated usually by m² (LOA x BEAM) and there are offers for 5 days on the dry for inspection. (called manutentions, approx. 24€ / m² over 16t or 14-15€/m² under 16t for monohulls)

48h for a written survey is very sporty, usually the oil analysis alone takes around 1-2 weeks (the oil is sent by sealed mail to a lab for analysis).

[gabilo]

Originally Posted by 2big2small

It seems too high to me but France can be expensive, especially around the riviera. For that price I would want to make sure on forehand in written that:

1. they will send an experienced rigger up the mast who will inspect every single detail of the standing rigging with magnifying optical instruments, all sail areas, and all the running rigging, not forgetting the furlers

2. that a very seasoned mechanic will thoroughly check both the main engine and genset,

3. that qualified people will inspect the other systems such as water maker, air conditioning, plumbing, electricity, steering system, ground tackle and windlass, keel bolts, etc.

4. that they will measure the humidity inside the hull with the appropriate electronics and not just hammer it a bit which you can do yourself, and that they’ll also visually examine every inch of it looking for osmosis.

5. That the haul-out and any other costs are included in the price and not supplements.

Etc, I’m certainly forgetting stuff.

If for that price you just get a single guy switching all equipment on and off once and then making a show of hammering the hull a bit then you are royally screwed over, and those boating companies are very good at that. If he also declares the hull to be too dirty or equipment to be too innacessible for inspection then you’re screwed too. Basically you need two or three guys to show up in coveralls with tool kits for this price, and not a single guy in immaculate top brand fancy sailing apparel.

If you start asking very detailed questions about what they’ll do you will probably quickly detect whether they’re posers or serious. If they answer with lots of reassurance then they’re posers. If they go into advanced technical detail then they’re probably knowledgeable.

I have read a few surveys when shopping for boats where it was totally clear that the surveyor was clueless about his job and unfortunately there are more of those than serious ones. The fact that it is a company and not an individual also doesn’t inspire confidence. They typically have a lot of staff turn over and work with whoever is cheapest with total disregard of their customers.

Definitely look for online reviews and references before settling on one. I had a survey done for 400 euros, even though on a much smaller and simpler boat. And two guys spent about 5 hours (without going up the rigging or hauling the boat)...

From your post I understand you would expect for the 1800 Euro.
A rigger, a sailmaker, a mechanic, a aircon guy, plus the surveyor ...

Well, that’s not going to happen for that price in my opinion. Will be hard to find a reputable company to charge 360 Euro for each of the guys for a full day’s work.

[Kenomac]

In England I paid £600 for a survey six years ago for a 53ft boat.

[barnakiel]

I think the amt is reasonable provided the survey is in-depth.

I would insist on full engine check (compression test, oil analysis, etc. included) too.

Furthermore make sure the Amel specific items are all very well covered (e.g. in mast furling, sail-leg keel mechanism, etc.)

Cheers,
b.

[Hobie_ind]

Caution. They're in France and they've done surveys on Amel's, but it doesn't mean they are experts on them. While they are 'just boats', there are specific items to look for, particularly in the way the electrical systems are laid out, that it's good to have someone who's truly familiar with them.

If you've got time, I'd suggest following up with these two resources and get some recommendations or feedback:

Amel Owner's Group on Yahoo:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...chtowners/info
(It's a closed group so you have to contact the moderator to get access, but if you're looking at an Amel they are an invaluable resource)

Bill Rouse's Amel School:
http://www.amelschool.com/
I don't know Bill, but he's been a prolific contributor to the Amel Group above and is now offering some consulting services to people looking at Amels. I got the impression on the Amel Group that he's got some recommendations on surveyors in the area.

Chantier Amel: Amel themselves may have recommendations on surveyors they recommend. I'd suggest calling their Customer Support department.

Finally, Eleuthera 2014 is a common contributor here on CruisersForum with a SM in the Med. I'd PM him and see if he's got any recommendations or leads for you in France.

Regards,
Mark

[Dave22q]

By my US experience 1800 euros (over $2000 US) is way high. I would call others before closing on this deal. Everything you listed is part of a normal pre-purchase survey including furnishing a report.
Here if you wand a thorough engine inspection you hire an engine specialist. Same if you want any mast climbing. Marine surveyors are generalists. I would follow the usual sequence of getting a general survey and considering specialist follow up inspections if the initial survey or sea trial causes concerns. Depending on the cause you might be able to negotiate sharing the cost of any specialist surveys.

[Smokeys Kitchen]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

In England I paid £600 for a survey six years ago for a 53ft boat.

Was this a single surveyor or more than one (eg. a rigger and a surveyor)? What was included?

Thanks