Fitting atomic 4 into Catalina 30 (that was made for universal diesel)

[jonnytsa]

Hi, i have been looking for answers on a problem with an old universal diesel 5411 motor in my sailboat that was siezed when i bought it and have recently taken out of my boat. I can't find a replacement 5411 anywhere in the bay area and not sure i can unsieze the one that i have since its been sitting from an overheating meltdown that happened 20 years ago? I do see atomic 4 motors for sale and am considering switching although my 79' catalina 30 was set up for the universal diesel and am not sure if the mounts will fit considering the height mounting position of the atomic 4. I was told by the person selling the atomic 4 that i would have to glass in supports for the atomic 4 to sit on. This sounds difficult since it would not have adjustable bolts to align the motor with the shaft (which i was told has to be extremely accurate and risky to install without adjustable mounts?) Anyway every mechanic i call doesn't want to deal with used motors and is telling me to spend 20,000$ on a new motor and install (yea right).

So the question is: Has anyone with a Catalina 30 (1979 or later) put in an atomic 4 that has had to deal with changing mounting positions?

[Cheechako]

is yours under the settee like many Cat 30's? I don't imagine an atomic will fit under there. How about rebuilding the diesel? I imagine gas in the old diesel tank would result in some big problems also. It's Kubota based isn't it..? In the mean time you could put an outboard bracket on the back and use an OB for a while...

[The Garbone]

I am currently doing the exact project.

It can be done but it is a lot of work.

I bought an old A4 for a few hundred bucks. Built a jig to to rough in the motor mounts and got the shaft log and coupler all set up.

2 days before dropping the motor in the boat I was tuning the idle running it in the garage. Had a perforation of # 3 cylinder and started pumping water out the exhaust.

Now I have my motor torn down and plan on getting it resleeved at a machine shop for $700 in a week or so.

Once done I will have about $3000 or so into the mill but it will be like new with fresh water cooling.

Check out Moyermarine.com. You can buy a reconditioned A4 there for about $5k and their forum is great. There a a few folks that have done the exact conversion you want to.





Gary

[The Garbone]

A little more.

You also have to replace the prop to match the new mill.

My 78 came with a 12x8 2 blade and I put on a indigo 3 blade specialty designed for the A4 direct drive. Report are it will give me 3knts at idle and get the boat to hull speed easily. Also they say the 3 blade is much better in reverse than the old diesel 2 blade setup.

My C30 came with no motor but an outboard. In my opinion just a horrible setup.

For the price of a decent OB and remote throttle you can get your diesel rebuilt or go for the A4 refit for a little more.


Gary

[Stu Jackson]

IIRC, the C30s originally came with A4s. You do know, of course, that if you do so you will need a new prop.

[Cheechako]

There's a completely rebuilt Universal here for $2800: http://www.dieselenginetrader.com/se...ne_details.cfm

I don't know these blocks, but if the 18hp is the same there are some on Ebay also...

[jeepbluetj]

Stu's right. The A4 was an OEM engine for the C30. Fits just fine under the settee. It's the diesel replacements that end up too tall.

The indigo is the right prop too - and it's amazingly not that expensive.

My old old old A4 and indigo push the boat at 6+kts, 2000 rpm. 'bout .75 GPH.

[jonnytsa]

Okay so i have an outboard on the back as of now and since the stern of the boat rises above sea level (like most sailboats designed for an inboard) the outboard motor jumps out of the water in waves even with the long shaft.

I was told that the atomic 4 sits lower than the universal atomic diesel?

Starting 1979 the catalinas came with/ and were set up for the universal diesel. Earlier models were set up for the atomic 4.

I began taking apart the engine that is siezed, the problem is that mechanics don't want to deal with it and i'm not experienced enough to know how much i can bang on this motor to get the pistons to move without damaging the thing.

Thanks for the responses. It's so difficult not having mechanics in the area that can help. Any advice on unseizing a motor is appreciated also.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by jonnytsa

... and i'm not experienced enough to know how much i can bang on this motor to get the pistons to move without damaging the thing.

.... Any advice on unseizing a motor is appreciated also.

Lately I've found a lot of skippers asking questions where Google searches can come in really handy. Just because it's a boat question doesn't mean Google can't help. Even if they're not "boating oriented" it's just searches for letter combinations. Or binary...whatever...

There are probably a LOT more diesel engines that are NOT in boats. Make use of the vast internet resources, not only in boating forums. You'll end up knowing way more than your local "mechanics."

[jonnytsa]

ya i've googled alot. haven't found alot of info

[The Garbone]

Marvel oil down the bores for a week should do the trick. Rubber mallets are you friend.

The question is how much work is a 11hp mill worth in an 11k lb boat. Part of the reason I went with an A4 is power and great support.




Gary

[jeepbluetj]

The a4 was still standard in 1980 - the diesel was an option. (My boat is a 1980)

Get the old diesel out, pull the head. Soak the cyls with marvel/PB blaster - Me? I'd maybe take the crank out depending on what it looks like on the bottom end. Soak for a week or two and then start smacking it. I'd use a deadblow hammer and a block of wood. You really can't damage it much more than it already is.

Plenty of good resources on how to rebuild a motor - it's pretty easy stuff.

[sailersteve]

remember if you get the diesel turning over , you still have an 20 year old over heating problem .

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by sailersteve

remember if you get the diesel turning over , you still have an 20 year old over heating problem .

Why overheating?
OP: so the head is off the diesel? How bad do the bores look? Real rusty with thick buildup? or light "wipe away" rust? That little diesel might be pretty easy to overhaul... remove the crank, remove the head, put some thin oil in t he bores for a few days, start wacking the top of the pistons with a piece of wood and hammer.... to try to "shock" them loose.
I ran a small charter fleet of Cat 30's with that engine, they are nice little engines.
Your boat is a lot more valuable without the Atomic 4 in it also.

It appears plenty of parts availability here and other places: http://www.marinedieseldirect.com/ca...ort=pagenumber

[Ernest Skublics]

Please look into the possibility of fitting a Beta Marine Diesel. It is the most awesome engine you can have. I had one in my Westerly Centaur in the UK and traveled approximately 5,500 km-s, down the Irish Sea and up the Channel to the Rhine, up the Rhine against its brutal current -- people assured me I was insane to attempt it, across to the Danube and down to the Black Sea, the Marmara and the Aegean to the bottom of Turkey, over 700 engine hours. She is a totally dependable, tough and powerful sweetheart. Given a choice I would not consider any other engine. I also seem to recall seeing and ad suggesting that a Beta is the perfect replacement for an Atomic 4. So, if the latter fits your boat, so will a Beta. Good luck!
Ernest