Beneteau 42/44CC vs 473/423

[daletournier]

In my experience the front v berth isn't a good option while under passage.

Having two good sleeping options (generally mid ship) and having a very functional, safe galley while on passage make a huge difference, eating well and sleeping well a crucial on longer passages. A galley that locks you in to some degree. For me shade protection is also a biggy , not just at anchor but underway as the sun can really zap you.
I also believe head position or wet locker/room is important, if you are sailing in bad weather you don't want to be walking water all the way through the boat to go to the loo. Having a head directly opposite the companion way is a good thing.

[drewm3i]

Anyone have any insight on the Catalina 42? It looks very homey and comfortable with lots of storage and space. Also the showers and staterooms look to be of nice size.

Any insight into the build quality? How does the rig compare to the Beneteau 423? I hear the liner is tabbed to the hull instead of glued with plexus? I read the keel is lead instead of iron? Is it safe to assume this is a better quality boat?

I've also been looking at gemini performance cruising catamarans. I understand these aren't Water boats">blue water boats, but it does have three cabins, is affordable, and would be great for Florida, the east coast, and the Bahamas. Any insight into this boat as well, or any 1995+ catamarans under 200k to look at?

[Vasco]

All the boats mentioned in this thread will do for what the OP wants. It's really six of one and half a dozen of the other. My advice to the OP would be not to get fixated on one model but look at as many as he can and buy the one in the best condition.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by drewm3i

Anyone have any insight on the Catalina 42? It looks very homey and comfortable with lots of storage and space. Also the showers and staterooms look to be of nice size.

Any insight into the build quality? How does the rig compare to the Beneteau 423? I hear the liner is tabbed to the hull instead of glued with plexus? I read the keel is lead instead of iron? Is it safe to assume this is a better quality boat?

I've also been looking at gemini performance cruising catamarans. I understand these aren't blue water boats, but it does have three cabins, is affordable, and would be great for Florida, the east coast, and the Bahamas. Any insight into this boat as well, or any 1995+ catamarans under 200k to look at?

I have the 470,not sure how similar in construction to the 42 but I guess they are similar.
I chose the Catalina over beneteau, Jeanneau etc based on construction, my crawling through them and research suggested they were a much more robust build.

Lead keel, keel stub rather than keel bolted on the hull, no liner (other than showers) it has very large fiberglass grid system (frame) glassed into the boat, glassed in bulk heads, substantial rigging, steering wheels are independent of each other, one has a mechanical problem cable etc, but it doesn't effect other wheel, bottom third of rudder is sacrificial, strong spade rudder setup, substantial layup (1inch) below waterline solid glass.

There's more than that, it's a well built boat, I had other options but believed the Catalina to be equally well built as some of the more expensive boats on the market, in fact better built than some. The lead keel is a good example, look at comparable boats in the same price range (even more) and see how many have lead keels. Manufacturers don't use cast iron because it's better.

[drewm3i]

The more research I do, the more I think I will end up with a Catalina. Even the 400 and 387 have layouts and features that seem to suit our needs. I appreciate all of the feedback in this thread!

When you say the keel is a stub, do you mean encapsulated? No bolts like Beneteau?

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by drewm3i

The more research I do, the more I think I will end up with a Catalina. Even the 400 and 387 have layouts and features that seem to suit our needs. I appreciate all of the feedback in this thread!

When you say the keel is a stub, do you mean encapsulated? No bolts like Beneteau?

Not escapulated. It's still a bolt on keel. I'm no boat builder, the likes of Minaret would be better at answering the more technical side of this question.

A keel stub is generally considered a much stronger way to attach a bolt on keel, yet most production boats now attach (bolt the keel) straight to the hull, this puts alot more stress on the hull. Boats vary, some like X boats have galvanised frames glassed into their hulls that distribute the loads but Beneteau etc have nothing like this.

Using my catalina as an eg. The combination of a very strong keel stub and lead keel make a much stronger,, shock absorbing keel setup than a cast iron keel bolted straight on to the hull, also you get as a bonus a great bilge which many new boats don't have. This was important to me, I've run aground before and I will do so again.

My last boat was a freedom. I hit a rock hard at 4 knots, I was sure I was in trouble. Amazingly no issue. With no liner I could have a good look at the inside of the hull. Lead absorbs alot of impact, iron transfers impact to other parts of the boat.

Don't get me wrong, I'd cruise in a beneteau or equivalent, would do so over a, 30 year old boat with associated age issues. I just preferred the build characteristics of my Catalina.

Also, many will talk about encapsulated keels being better, they have their own unique set of problems, I've seen them.

[daletournier]

BTW, I know nothing about other model Catalinas, they could be great or terrible, I have no idea.

[NYSail]

Wife and I bought a 2005 423 last December.... we love the layout (2 cabin version) and love the way she handles. In regards to tankage and storage the boat is great. the 423 has great ventilation and is a very comfortable boat indeed. In regards to access to mechanicals the boat so far is good as well... not just engine, but stansion bolts etc... I have the yanmar version of the boat which I personally sought. Not a huge Volvo fan but I know others love them. we plan to sail her south in a few years when the house is paid off.... do the live aboard and see how far we go. Btw what pushed my wife to getting a bigger boat now is that she got hooked on sv Delos and la vagabond. Our previous boat was a 1986 p36-2 which was a great boat.... just not the tankage we wanted.

We too looked at a few Jenneaus.... a 42ds and was disappointed in the interior... no hand holds, limited ventilation, no storage. Great wood deck, anchor locker and aft berth though..

Good luck!

[drewm3i]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Not escapulated. It's still a bolt on keel. I'm no boat builder, the likes of Minaret would be better at answering the more technical side of this question.

A keel stub is generally considered a much stronger way to attach a bolt on keel, yet most production boats now attach (bolt the keel) straight to the hull, this puts alot more stress on the hull. Boats vary, some like X boats have galvanised frames glassed into their hulls that distribute the loads but Beneteau etc have nothing like this.

Using my catalina as an eg. The combination of a very strong keel stub and lead keel make a much stronger,, shock absorbing keel setup than a cast iron keel bolted straight on to the hull, also you get as a bonus a great bilge which many new boats don't have. This was important to me, I've run aground before and I will do so again.

My last boat was a freedom. I hit a rock hard at 4 knots, I was sure I was in trouble. Amazingly no issue. With no liner I could have a good look at the inside of the hull. Lead absorbs alot of impact, iron transfers impact to other parts of the boat.

Don't get me wrong, I'd cruise in a beneteau or equivalent, would do so over a, 30 year old boat with associated age issues. I just preferred the build characteristics of my Catalina.

Also, many will talk about encapsulated keels being better, they have their own unique set of problems, I've seen them.

That makes sense, I appreciate your feedback!

[drewm3i]

Originally Posted by SailRocyPoint

Wife and I bought a 2005 423 last December.... we love the layout (2 cabin version) and love the way she handles. In regards to tankage and storage the boat is great. the 423 has great ventilation and is a very comfortable boat indeed. In regards to access to mechanicals the boat so far is good as well... not just engine, but stansion bolts etc... I have the yanmar version of the boat which I personally sought. Not a huge Volvo fan but I know others love them. we plan to sail her south in a few years when the house is paid off.... do the live aboard and see how far we go. Btw what pushed my wife to getting a bigger boat now is that she got hooked on sv Delos and la vagabond. Our previous boat was a 1986 p36-2 which was a great boat.... just not the tankage we wanted.

We too looked at a few Jenneaus.... a 42ds and was disappointed in the interior... no hand holds, limited ventilation, no storage. Great wood deck, anchor locker and aft berth though..

Good luck!

Those sailing channels have also inspired us. I appreciate the feedback!

[TeeJii]

For what's it's worth, I'd like to add something about the cabins. Yes, the forward v is often quite unusable underway. Sometimes it can also be occupied by two spinnakers you have been using and then just showed down the hatch when things got out of control. But your mileage may vary Underway it's usually best to just grab the couch at midships - and as the owner you have the right to claim the best sleeping spot.

But about the number of cabins: I would recommend going with the least amount of cabins. Ie. 2. Because it's way easier to run out of storage than sleeping places. The amount of stuff that just accumulates is hard to overestimate. With two cabins and two couches you can sleep six on board. Having two more people aboard and it will start to feel crowded. Unless there is rum and then the floor/ coachroof/ sail locker/ heads are almost magically transformed into acceptable sleeping quarters. It's impossible to lose with that stuff.

Given that you have no kids that have to be occasionally separated into their own cages to prevent a full out war, it would make sense to try and maximize the "out of sight" storage capability. If you count the amount of cabinets and then consider your entire wardrobe, computers, tools, weather gear">foul weather gear, ground tackle, spares, life jackets, books, collection of vintage bicycle frames, all kinds of esoteric sailing related thingamajigs and the amount of rum required to act as a moral compass.. You will soon realize how cool a big deck locker is.

[drewm3i]

Originally Posted by TeeJii

For what's it's worth, I'd like to add something about the cabins. Yes, the forward v is often quite unusable underway. Sometimes it can also be occupied by two spinnakers you have been using and then just showed down the hatch when things got out of control. But your mileage may vary Underway it's usually best to just grab the couch at midships - and as the owner you have the right to claim the best sleeping spot.

But about the number of cabins: I would recommend going with the least amount of cabins. Ie. 2. Because it's way easier to run out of storage than sleeping places. The amount of stuff that just accumulates is hard to overestimate. With two cabins and two couches you can sleep six on board. Having two more people aboard and it will start to feel crowded. Unless there is rum and then the floor/ coachroof/ sail locker/ heads are almost magically transformed into acceptable sleeping quarters. It's impossible to lose with that stuff.

Given that you have no kids that have to be occasionally separated into their own cages to prevent a full out war, it would make sense to try and maximize the "out of sight" storage capability. If you count the amount of cabinets and then consider your entire wardrobe, computers, tools, foul weather gear, ground tackle, spares, life jackets, books, collection of vintage bicycle frames, all kinds of esoteric sailing related thingamajigs and the amount of rum required to act as a moral compass.. You will soon realize how cool a big deck locker is.

Thanks for your input! I am definitely focusing on boats with two cabins. I think realistically I'd like an aft owners cabin which is why I'm starting to like the Catalina 400 a lot. The 470 is nice, but it's huge and expensive.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by drewm3i

Thanks for your input! I am definitely focusing on boats with two cabins. I think realistically I'd like an aft owners cabin which is why I'm starting to like the Catalina 400 a lot. The 470 is nice, but it's huge and expensive.

Hi, just thought I send you a private note. The 470 is only huge initially, you soon adapt, don't let the size worry you.
Yes they're expensive but if you shop around you maybe surprised, I purchased mine for 135kusd! 860hrs on the engine. Bargains do come up.

Cheers Dale
Sukha.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Hi, just thought I send you a private note. The 470 is only huge initially, you soon adapt, don't let the size worry you.
Yes they're expensive but if you shop around you maybe surprised, I purchased mine for 135kusd! 860hrs on the engine. Bargains do come up.

Cheers Dale
Sukha.

Whoops, half a sleep and the previous message obviously isn't private,oh well.

[drewm3i]

Just to update this thread: we have finally purchased a sailboat! She is a 1987 Ericson 38-200 and we are closing on her in a few weeks! Her keel stepped mast, medium displacement, teak wood work, and lead keel were deciding factors for us!