Adding a weight on anchor chain

[Popeye2]

5.5 ton 35ft sailboat. 15kilos Bruce anchor 8mm chain. Mud. 2 meters depth in low tide. Wind from all directions. Gust to 50 knots on occasion. No space to leave out more than 25 meters of chain. To spend the winter I am considering adding a 25 kilo metel weight about 10 meters from the anchor. Am I on the right track?

[Mike OReilly]

The questions/comments that come to mind immediately:

• Where are you wintering? Can you talk to others with direct experience?
  
• When you say wind from all directions, does this mean no protection at all?
  
• What about the seas? Fetch? How big will the waves get? With 50 knot winds, and little protection, I’d be more worried about the seas.
  
• Your scope is good for low tide, but what is your depth at normal high tide? What about high-high tides?
  
• 50 knots is a lot of wind at anchor (or anytime). No matter how good your setup, this is not going to be easy, and you’re never going to be perfectly safe.
  
• What about neighbours? Will others drag down on you? Is your rode vulnerable to getting snagged by dragging boats?
  
• A bruce is a good anchor for the right substrate, although I think the ’new gen’ anchors are generally better. What is the bottom like? Is a Bruce good for this bottom?
  
• Chain size sounds good. You’ll want long snubbers as well. Probably need to replace them at some point.

You’re talking about adding a kellet or sentinel to your rode. I have no experience with them, although I have deployed a second anchor on the same rode. Those who test anchoring systems report mixed, sometimes contrary results with kellets. The only downside I can see to them is deployment and retrieval, but it may not make your system noticeably better.

A far better solution is the get a bigger, better anchor. And more rode is always better (for holding anyway). A better anchorage is a good idea as well.

[sailorboy1]

Why wouldn't you just get a bigger anchor?

[Popeye2]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

The questions/comments that come to mind immediately:

• Where are you wintering? Can you talk to others with direct experience?
  
  Alvor. Portugal. Yes some others here a anchor.
  
• When you say wind from all directions, does this mean no protection at all?
  
  An Inlet. Protected from the sea. Not from the wind.
  
• What about the seas? Fetch? How big will the waves get? With 50 knot winds, and little protection, I’d be more worried about the seas.
  
  No waves.
  
• Your scope is good for low tide, but what is your depth at normal high tide? What about high-high tide.
  
  Low ride 2m
  High tide 5m
  
• 50 knots is a lot of wind at anchor (or anytime). No matter how good your setup, this is not going to be easy, and you’re never going to be perfectly safe.
  
  50 knots expected very rarely.
  
  
• What about neighbours? Will others drag down on you? Is your rode vulnerable to getting snagged by dragging boats?
  
  Yes. They might get dragged.
  
• A bruce is a good anchor for the right substrate, although I think the ’new gen’ anchors are generally better. What is the bottom like? Is a Bruce good for this bottom?
  
  Just know it's mud and my Bruce held in 30 knots.
  
• Chain size sounds good. You’ll want long snubbers as well. Probably need to replace them at some point.

You’re talking about adding a kellet or sentinel to your rode. I have no experience with them, although I have deployed a second anchor on the same rode. Those who test anchoring systems report mixed, sometimes contrary results with kellets. The only downside I can see to them is deployment and retrieval, but it may not make your system noticeably better.

A far better solution is the get a bigger, better anchor. And more rode is always better (for holding anyway). A better anchorage is a good idea as well.

Financially and logistics wise a new anchor is difficult this winter. I am hoping that extra weight _ a metel weight on a rope to the chain_. Would keep the chain low and prevent the anchor from dislodging everytime the wind direction changed.

Thanks a lot for your detailed reply above.

[noelex 77]

A 15kg Bruce on a 35 foot sailboat with gusts of 50 knots is a marginal proposition, even in good holding ground with a reasonable scope. I have a soft spot for Bruce anchors, they have some great properties, but the absolute holding power for the weight is low. The smaller sizes seem to perform less well. This is not surprising, as the design was originally conceived for large oil rig anchors and scaling this down to 15kg is a stretch.

A larger anchor is the best solution. It sounds like you are intending to spend winter in one place. In reasonable mud almost all anchor designs work well. Penetrating mud is not difficult.

Large old generation anchors are not expensive and from your post I think picking up a large cheap second hand anchor like this may be your best solution for your winter storage. If you want to cruise and move anchorages a different solution will be needed.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Popeye2

Financially and logistics wise a new anchor is difficult this winter. I am hoping that extra weight _ a metel weight on a rope to the chain_. Would keep the chain low and prevent the anchor from dislodging everytime the wind direction changed.

Thanks a lot for your detailed reply above.

More thoughts … I’m just thinking out loud here. What you plan is a serious challenge.

• I think your rode will be too short at high tide. Your bow is likely another metre off the water, so you’re looking at vertical depths of 3 to 6 metres. At 3 m your 25 rode is a comfortable 8:1, but at high it is an inadequate 4:1. Toss in 50 knot gusts and all bets are off whether you will stay put.
  
• What type of anchors and rode setups are others — who have had success — using?
  
• Mud can be excellent holding if it is firm. It can be terrible if it is soupy or too gravelly. It can also hold weed roots or other debris which can cause complications. I’d investigate further, or get more info from experienced people.
  
• A danforth-style anchor might be a better choice in this substrate. Big ones can be had for cheap.
  
• I view an anchor as cheap and effective insurance. Your Bruce is a decent anchor, but your plans are on the extreme end of things. A bigger, and better anchor, is what you want.
  
• A kellet might add some holding power to your system at lower wind speeds, but at some point it will be lifted with the rode. At this point you’re relying on the holding power of the anchor. A bigger, new designed anchor (or even a large older design), will likely be better.

Bottom line: Unless the holding is exceedingly good, I would not attempt what you are suggesting.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Popeye2

Financially and logistics wise a new anchor is difficult this winter..

Compared to losing the boat???????

Sure the weight will “help”. But come on, you want the boat or not?

[Don C L]

Unfortunately the kellet doesn't give what an anchor needs, more scope. It may be of use in dampening the shock loads, but for holding power, once the anchor rode is pulled taut, if things get that bad, the scope is what will determine if the anchor will continue to hold, given that it is big enough in the first place.
Sinking a Myth – The Anchor Kellet
I would concede that it makes it harder for the rode to be pulled taut though.

[LoudMusic]

I have no experience with it, but what are the possibilities of having a semi-perminent mooring installed? Maybe find someone selling end-of-life "jersey berriers" (or other such disused block of concrete) and someone to come set it at your anchorage. Then pick it up when you're done with the spot. Or put a ball on it and come back next year.

https://goo.gl/images/uesWV3

[kristjan]

Surely, for the winter you can find somewhere an old engine block to make a mooring out off, and spread an anchor or two off that block? Depth at high tide length of chain and a float to twice that of line with a float halfway.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Popeye2

5.5 ton 35ft sailboat. 15kilos Bruce anchor 8mm chain. Mud. 2 meters depth in low tide. Wind from all directions. Gust to 50 knots on occasion. No space to leave out more than 25 meters of chain. To spend the winter I am considering adding a 25 kilo metel weight about 10 meters from the anchor. Am I on the right track?

where are you considering doing this at? Personally I would rather acquire a 27 lb danforth and a hundred feet of rode . Put the anchor on the chain and add the rode. Run short in good weather but lengthen the rode when the winds require more rode.

[Popeye2]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Why wouldn't you just get a bigger anchor?

A new one delivered would be too expensive for me. No chance for a used one near. Whats the best anchor for mud?

[Popeye2]

Originally Posted by kristjan

Surely, for the winter you can find somewhere an old engine block to make a mooring out off, and spread an anchor or two off that block? Depth at high tide length of chain and a float to twice that of line with a float halfway.

Thanks. Sounds reasonable.

[Popeye2]

Originally Posted by newhaul

where are you considering doing this at? Personally I would rather acquire a 27 lb danforth and a hundred feet of rode . Put the anchor on the chain and add the rode. Run short in good weather but lengthen the rode when the winds require more rode.

In alvor, Portugal. An estuary. Some others at anchor also. Tempory. Don't know anyone here who survived a winter on one anchor. The mud does look solid enough.

[Bleemus]

At high tide in Alvor you add 3 meters. Depth 2 meters at low plus another meter for boat plus 3 meters for tide. Total 8 meters.

25 meters of chain divided by 8 equals 3.1 scope. 50 knot gusts? Your crazy.