Beneteau Idylle 15.5 - potential project

[Fore and Aft]

I see you are not thinking about full time cruising for 15 years? So by then your boat will be due another major overhaul of all the systems you have already repaired when you first purchased the yacht. For sure I think you will find it hard to get a 15 year old rig insured.
Personally I think it is to big for just a couple of weeks sailing a year and a few weekends. Have you looked at the cost of insurance, dock fees and slipping/antifouling costs (At least once every 2 years). Here in Australia I bet you could charter a yacht for two weeks a year for the cost of maintaining a 50 foot hole in the ocean.
I know the idea of a cheap yacht is very apealing but I think you could go sailing now and have better family time on a smaller yacht.
Cheers

[lateral]

Originally Posted by ronstory

An alternative idea is look around for boat that has be extensively refitted but it's current owner for X dollars and buy it complete and ready-to-go for a third to half of X. Then you can go sailing immediately and continue to develop your sailing skills.

Then your kids will remember the fun sailing the boat and not scraping mold and old varnish, R&R rigging and wiring. Plus have a motor that spins is nice feature.

IMO, buying completely refitted boat at the FMV is the best deal out there. I wish I had done that. lol

+10
I wish I had done that too. Lost too many years and $'s.
Even boat free, its a dubious proposition.
Unless you prefer working on your boat to sailing.

[Bob Divine]

Apart from the mechanical/financial issues, if this is the boat design I am thinking of, it may not be suitable for cruising in your Gulf Coast area--too much keel and too little ventilation. The Benetau First models have very small ports--great for northern Europe but unbearable in the hot and humid south.

[SteveSadler]

Read up on Fatty Goodlanders books and yes you’ll see what a good deal it can be, but he had the time and skills to see it through . With young kids and a job, it may not be practical. Besides, just doing some quick math, buying all new electronics, rigging, sails, upholstery, interior, engine maybe, dingy, solar, batteries,etc,on and on, will likely exceed your budget.
When you’re ready to go cruising go to the Med where 8 yr old charter boats are plentiful and cheap. They usually sell in charter condition with dingy and everything a charter boat carry’s. Go in October when the season over check them all out, charter one if you’re not sure, and watch the prices drop as April approaches and their new charter boat needs a slip. You’ll have a season of easy sailing in the med with reasonable parts and labor everywhere.
Meanwhile buy a coastal cruiser and learn to sail with your kids.

[captlloyd]

I say do some serious research on costs and possible replacement parts. Keep in mind that some folks on this forum are very negative on projects. If the numbers add up go for it. Engine rebuild costs quoted in this post very high if you are capable of doing it yourself, it’s not rocket science. There is a lot of really good used parts out there due to so many boats being recently salvaged.

[MartinR]

These are beautiful boats, so might be worth the effort. Designed for the Caribbean, so ventilation should be OK, but maybe not up to modern standards. Insulation probably very good. The draft would limit you, though.

[JPA Cate]

The draft issue.....

Look at the charts for where you'd want to sail the boat the first 5 yrs. Check the depths. If you cannot fit into the anchorages, then pass on the boat. However, we have been told we cannot sail in Queensland's Moreton Bay, but what we've found is that there are portions of it where we cannot go, but where we do go, we simply anchor out farther than people who draw less. So, my take on it is that it will depend on your local cruising grounds, and a careful look at the charts will tell you that.

Plus, just hearing from others, well, it doesn't prepare you for the tasks of a skipper very well. A proper skipper actually carries a lot of responsibility. You need to know those depths and make your decisions. It will be better for everybody.

Ann

[Junglebike]

New sails, standing & running rigging alone might put you over your budget. Let alone the engine and everything else.

My suggestions are to separate *that boat* from *a boat*:

1. A realistic assessment of your sailing objectives over the next several years, and a cross-check with your wife's.

2. A clean-sheet look at all of the options out there (chartering, sailing clubs, smaller boats, other big projects) and how they'd meet #1.

3. Come back to *that boat* and look at it with fresh eyes. You might be far happier with a turnkey small boat that'd still accommodate your family like a J92, or maybe a funky old project boat of a more manageable size.

I have a 40' boat and 3 kids age 5-10, and I'd probably go smaller rather than bigger if I were to buy another. A lot can change in 15 years - I'd not buy a boat for that far in the future, especially one that big.

[thruska]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

I see you are not thinking about full time cruising for 15 years? So by then your boat will be due another major overhaul of all the systems you have already repaired when you first purchased the yacht. For sure I think you will find it hard to get a 15 year old rig insured.
Personally I think it is to big for just a couple of weeks sailing a year and a few weekends. Have you looked at the cost of insurance, dock fees and slipping/antifouling costs (At least once every 2 years). Here in Australia I bet you could charter a yacht for two weeks a year for the cost of maintaining a 50 foot hole in the ocean.
I know the idea of a cheap yacht is very apealing but I think you could go sailing now and have better family time on a smaller yacht.
Cheers

X2
You have asked here and gotten told bluntly to watch your p’s n q’s. This project of which you are still whole heartedly interested in even after several well put cautions.... heyman it cant even be compared to a jeep restoration! Not even close !
If you are just wanting to test the family bond and your marriage, i can guarantee you , this project will most definitely do that. And it will no doubt test and strain your tenacity and strength in all aspects of your life, and im not bsi-ing you .
So understand there are reasons it’s sitting behind the house and not moving .
If you trade off a boat working weekend for a recital or soccer practice or game, you are doomed. Or vice versa. ( no matter how that’s read , results are similar...)
Whatever you do , good luck with your decision.
Just don’t throw caution to the wind...
Such a project WILL change your life.

[Matsubob]

I would say: GO FOR IT!.... with a few conditions that only you can assess accurately. First of all, is it worth the price? This can only be determined by going through all systems, including the engine, standing rigging, steering, electrical, condition of the interior. nothing whether there has been ingress of water or not, and at what points. Such as weeping lines around portlights, chainplates, etc. The main concern to me woult be the engine, first. Then the standing rigging. But the prioirty would be to get the boat moving, so focus on the engine and determine whether it is salvageable.
20 years ago, I was in the right place at the right time and received the papers for a 30 footer that I had had my eye on for several years. It had typhoon damage that left it with a gaping hole at the deck/hull joint on the starboard side. The owner never showed up, so it was towed out to a spot in the harbor and basically became a "mooring buoy" for the other boats. There it languised, gradually filling with rainwater, both from the hole and the rotting companionway hatch.
One time when I inspected it, the water level had risen to over ankle deep, meaning the rear cylinder on the 2GM Yanmar was starting to take on water from the intake manifold. The transmisson was inundated!
The warnings/comments above are true! Water standing in a hot cabin creates unwanted moisture that breeds mold and rot. The varnished woodwork still has marks from that, and the material covering the cushions had mildewed and then rotted and the sponge cores were black in places. The drapes were rotting and falling off.
So, when I received those papers that fateful day, my personal condition for continuing with this huge project was whether I could get the engine running. I could NOT afford a new one! (still can't!) The oil in the pan was black. Good sign! I had to split the engine and transmission in order to ligthen the package that would be hauled ashore for overhaul, and the amount of aluminum "sand" in the bell housing area required breaking that to get the two apart! But I was able to get the little 2GM running after overhaul and reinstallation, so I proceeded to sewing cushion covers and figuring out what to do about the steering, which was frozen in place.
I had to have the boat put on the hard for a six month period while I addressed that issue and did the required glasswork on the hole, in whatever spare time I could find, and finally got her seaworthy enough to splash her back in and continue on the project.
Japan has strict inspection rules, so that was the next step, then I continued to refurbish and replace, including having a new main and jib made. In the meantime, I was able to find a 3GM Yanmar, which I overhauled and installed, after learning that the boat was underpowered with the smaller little sister.
FINALLY, 2 years ago, I was able to declare her fit enough for sailing in waters close to home! This is a continuing project.
Has it taken a long time to get this far? Yes.
Could I have afforded a boat of this size that was in usable condition? No. The only option for me was to spread expenses out over the years, adding a bit here, tweaking something there until she was finally able to leave our little harbor.
Did I have all the skills to do this? No. Not at the beginning. You learn as you go! And you also learn that some things will need to be redone once you have gained the experience. I have done all of the work myself, with the exception of having to have a new prop shaft made and getting the correct propeller, as well as having the bow pulpit welded up after whacking the dock too many times during that typhoon.
Has it been worth it? You BET! (but some would definitely not agree)
It has been a great project to provide a change of venue, not to mention being a great place for taking a nap occasionally!
So I say: give it all a serious survey and then decide if the initial price is right and if the engine is salvageable.(it would be a good idea to spend some time on it, poke around and try to find why it is "stuck". If you can get it to move, the next question wouldbe whether or not the engine is too worn to use. auxiliary engines on sailboats suffer more from disuse than overuse, so it is highly possible that a new set of rings, inserts and general cleanup will put it back into almost new condition. The Yanmar has sleeves, so if this engine has sleeves, even an impossibly stuck piston in a sleeve wouldn't warrant trashing the engine. The logic behind that is that this engine was evidently used extensively before and has just been sitting, so if there has been no obvious intrusion, it would theoretically be pretty easy to restore!)
Someone commented on time spent times minimum wage would help in calculating whether the project is worth it. I would hate to calculate the hours I have spent! It would be embarrassing! But that isn't why I chose to do this. I chose it for the experience of seeing a derelict trashy looking object come back to life, and to even be beautiful again. And there is no way to put a value on the pleasure of doing that! No way!

And so I say: GO FOR IT! (conditionally)

[donradcliffe]

Some of us ENJOY working on boats. When you are done, you will have a boat which you know intimately. I would definitely not buy it for the offered price, however.

[Davwu]

Nobody has even mentioned that large rusty thing underwater - yes the iron keel will need work, likely requiring dropping it, blasting, coating will all sorts of nasty smelling coal tar epoxies, rebedding and new bolts, and of course yard labor and lift time, plus yard storage for a few years, steering sheaves and cables, rudder bearing. Suggest you take your estimate and multiply by 4 at least for all the other discoveries, then add the cost of hiring someone to maintain your house while you do this, and a surrogate to go to the kids sports games, then the cost of the divorce! But, it would be fun and is the stuff dreams are made of! 😁

[Idylles15.5]

I'm probably the only one on here who has completely stripped and restored an idylle 15.5, and all of you negative Nelly's should mellow out. The bolts on my keel were fine, and when I dropped it. With all 15 bolts out using a 6 ft torque wrench it still wouldn't drop even with wedges and a sledgehammer. We had to heat a piano wire with a torch and pull it through for the 10,000 pounds to drop. So maybe some of you should keep your opinions to yourself considering you haven't ever restored a boat from the keel up. If he gets this thing for the right price even if he dumped 150 grand into it he would have a kick ass boat. Built when the beneteau company was still privately owned and built great boats.

[Norsman]

Originally Posted by RubiconAg

long time reader, first post...need help from the CF braintrust

I am 36 with a wife and 2 little ones. I grew up lake sailing with friends so I am not a novice but by no means an experienced captain, especially on salt. I have owned several bay fishing boats over the years and have a weekend place on the gulf. I'm the perpetual tinkerer, having built several custom vehicles, owned RV's, etc. The last few years I have been project-less due to diapers and bottles, which are now a thing of the past. I am looking for something that can satisfy my tinkering/project tendencies and be family oriented. Thus, sailing comes back into the picture.

I have an opportunity to pick up a badly neglected 86' Ben. 15.5. This is the second owner, they purchased it from Moorings in 95' and cruised through 2001. From 2001-2017 the boat saw little use and since 2017 has seen no use, been moored on a channel behind the current owner’s house. Something has the Perkins 4.236 locked up, there is a constant leak in the sunroof which has done a fair amount of interior damage, and the rigging and systems are all very dated. With that, the price might be right, where putting $15k-$30k into the boat as a project makes it feasible.

I have done enough research to know the uniqueness/quality of the boat and Frers design, and the potential it has especially for a family. I would fully expect that the next 2-5 years would be spent re-building most aspects of the boat. Time will be the biggest factor as I would be a weekend warrior, possibly hiring out some of the repairs while performing others myself (experienced electrician, woodworker, engine re-builder, and have access to all the tools to do so).

Questions:

1. Is the boat worth a rebuild? With the purchase and repairs I could potentially be all-in below a budget of $30k-$60k.
2. Other than the obvious listed above, are there issues that were inherent with the Idylle models that I should be aware of?
3. What would classify a boat as “to far gone” in your opinion?
4. I have previous experience in sailing the 30’-40’ range, is jumping up to 51’ a completely different animal? (I would fully expect to have a mentor/teacher run (even if paid) with me in the beginning. My close friend who is experienced in sailing would also be on board consistently.)
5. We will not be full time cruisers (maybe in 15 years) but I could see a week to two week long trip once or twice a year with local sailing along the Tx, La., Miss., Al., gulf coast in between. Is the 51’ size to much for local gulf/ICW mini-cruising and weekend use?

Any input is welcomed!

Ive been married to a 36ft yacht in similar condition its been fun if you have the time the rigging is a must do and will set you back a lot of money the rigging and a new 0 class furler set me back $18.000 Aud, the Perkins is a good motor and with a bit of work [taking the injectors out and add oil to each cylinder then with a long bar connected to the harmonic balancer rock the crank back and forth the motor may free up] I've had success with method and saved $, the wiring is the next big job all hidden and will defiantly need replacing, good luck.

[Norsman]

Originally Posted by RubiconAg

long time reader, first post...need help from the CF braintrust

I am 36 with a wife and 2 little ones. I grew up lake sailing with friends so I am not a novice but by no means an experienced captain, especially on salt. I have owned several bay fishing boats over the years and have a weekend place on the gulf. I'm the perpetual tinkerer, having built several custom vehicles, owned RV's, etc. The last few years I have been project-less due to diapers and bottles, which are now a thing of the past. I am looking for something that can satisfy my tinkering/project tendencies and be family oriented. Thus, sailing comes back into the picture.

I have an opportunity to pick up a badly neglected 86' Ben. 15.5. This is the second owner, they purchased it from Moorings in 95' and cruised through 2001. From 2001-2017 the boat saw little use and since 2017 has seen no use, been moored on a channel behind the current owner’s house. Something has the Perkins 4.236 locked up, there is a constant leak in the sunroof which has done a fair amount of interior damage, and the rigging and systems are all very dated. With that, the price might be right, where putting $15k-$30k into the boat as a project makes it feasible.

I have done enough research to know the uniqueness/quality of the boat and Frers design, and the potential it has especially for a family. I would fully expect that the next 2-5 years would be spent re-building most aspects of the boat. Time will be the biggest factor as I would be a weekend warrior, possibly hiring out some of the repairs while performing others myself (experienced electrician, woodworker, engine re-builder, and have access to all the tools to do so).

Questions:

1. Is the boat worth a rebuild? With the purchase and repairs I could potentially be all-in below a budget of $30k-$60k.
2. Other than the obvious listed above, are there issues that were inherent with the Idylle models that I should be aware of?
3. What would classify a boat as “to far gone” in your opinion?
4. I have previous experience in sailing the 30’-40’ range, is jumping up to 51’ a completely different animal? (I would fully expect to have a mentor/teacher run (even if paid) with me in the beginning. My close friend who is experienced in sailing would also be on board consistently.)
5. We will not be full time cruisers (maybe in 15 years) but I could see a week to two week long trip once or twice a year with local sailing along the Tx, La., Miss., Al., gulf coast in between. Is the 51’ size to much for local gulf/ICW mini-cruising and weekend use?

Any input is welcomed!

Ive been married to a 36ft yacht in similar condition its been fun if you have the time the rigging is a must do and will set you back a lot of money the rigging and a new 0 class furler set me back $18.000 Aud, the Perkins is a good motor and with a bit of work [taking the injectors out and add oil to each cylinder then with a long bar connected to the harmonic balancer rock the crank back and forth the motor may free up] I've had success with method and saved $, the wiring is the next big job all hidden and will defiantly need replacing, good luck.