Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

[Buzzman]

This thread was prompted by a side discussion on the already massively digressed Places where you can retire on $200K thread.

So, imagine the SHTF and the global economy collapses. Trade stalls due to lack of trust. Food supplies in cities disappear. Chaos in the developed world.

Yet you have a boat.....well equipped (you define).

Sooooo, where would you go, and why...??

[hpeer]

Well, you don’t know until it happens. The last few years Ecuador has been very high on many Recommendation lists for expat retired Americans. But it seems have recently exploded. Or maybe that was just the big cities? Point is you don’t know.

When we lived in Philadelphia I imagined sitting on the boat in the Delaware Bay watching the loom of fires as the city burned in riots. You wait. Does it calm down? Is order restored? Does it effect Baltimore or DC? Norfolk might be a good refuge, lots of military presence. Or perhaps further south into the NC sounds until something more stable presents. But do ANYTHING to not be causing in the center city chaos. Hell I kept a dink at the house, I could lug it 3 blocks to the Schuylkill River and float to the boat on 4 tides. But a car, even with a full tank, would be useless. The roads impassable.

Now we live in Newfoundland during the summer. Different situation. There would be no civil unrest. But 95% of food is imported. If trade were completely shut off from the mainland, hard to imagine, I could run somewhere else. Again maybe the Chesapeake? Don’t know, maybe Ireland or Portugal.

In the summer we are in Caribbean. Food could easily run short. Perhaps I would not be welcome. But there are the French Islands, or Belize. PR, for all the post hurricane bitching, got good assistance compared to Dominique. I won’t be going to Venezuela. But could run most anywhere, if anywhere works.

[Buzzman]

Should probably add - might be in our children's lifetime, so let's sday somewhere closer to the end than the middle of this century - this allows for a bit of 'global warming' and 'climate change' to influence decisions and perchance make some places more rather than less desirable.

My top pic: Marquesas - long way form anywhere, so only those with a decent boat will make it; small local indigenous population, many of whom have retained pre-colonisation cultural survival skills; big place, small population, nice climate, good soil, plenty of fish....

Remember that sea rise will begin / has begun to affect those so-desirable tropical coral atolls, so that may make many of the more remote (and thus more desirable) smaller islands ultimately unattractive. All the ones worth living on have human populations, so finding a community that you can 'plug into' with some useful skill that will add value to you life (so the locals allow you to keep it) is also worth considering.

Also worht considering is that some of the atolls have entrances that are tricky for large boats, or only hav esmall 'haul out' points for skiffs, so a cat or a mono with retractable keel might be more desirable. You can certainly get further in to shore and up shallow rivers more readily, whihc will be important when looking for water supplies (as your first world watermaker will eventually fail, eventually)...

[hpeer]

Here is an interesting data set. Just found it. It’s from the Global Footprint people. May be of some use. I post more as I find them if you don’t mind.

Dataset | SDGs

[Buzzman]

Here's a few more:

NZ's Chatham Islands; Stewart Island; Auckland Islands.

Oz: Port Davey, Tasmania

Pacific: Pitcairn and Robinson Island. Latter I believe has no water, so you'd need to construct a reservoir and catch rainwater (TIP: An above ground swimming pool packs down really small, and relatively light, for its capacity. My uncle used one as their primary water reservoir in the Seventies on a north-coast commune. 4' deep but held like 25K litres.)

Any more?

[belizesailor]

Easy, my place on the Rio Dulce. Its offgrid, has 2 wells, chickens, and is surronded by water on 3 sides for fishing (several varieties of fish & shellfish).

The nearby tiny village (~200 people) has done without public utilities or government services its entire existence (they only recently got electricity). Otherwise there are no public services...no police, no medical, no officials at all...the village takes care of all its own business...including security.

The Guatemalan government, and others of the world, could collapse and no one there would notice.

[hpeer]

Hers another dataset. I’m looking at it on an iPhone so may appear differently to others. Green countries have a positive bio capacity, red negative. Green means they have not completely out stripped Earths their ability to sustain itself. You want green, but not so many green as red. (Also it’s somewhat suspect, damned if I know how the Bahamas are a green country. No water.). Looks like Bermuda is out.

In fact all the Caribbean looks pretty bad, more reason to doubt the Bahamas. North east SA looks good, if Venezuela doesn’t flow over.

In any case an interesting list.

Open Data Platform

[Kivalo]

This should be an entertaining thread. I've always told myself that in case of the appocolypse I was going to either... join a badass biker gang and rob & pillage my through life OR... I was going to steal a boat and rob & pillage my way through life.

[daletournier]

I'd sail home, Northern NSW Australia.

I know the place, I have community, family and support there, combine that with lush productive land, abundant water supply, great climate, far enough away but not that far and it ticks alot of boxes.

I dont own rural land in the area but have a number of friends that do and I look regularly at small acreage

Your question is something Ive asked myself several times, and home is regularly the answer that comes to mind.

I'm not a prepper but unfortunately I see the potential of a break down, particularly an economic breakdown which I believe the likely hood of one occurring is underestimated.

[unbusted67]

Following this thread. Seems like PNG would be a good option. Off the grid, lots of farmland, people who know how to feed themselves without help from outsiders.

Also weirdly, in many ways Martha's Vineyard is doing a lot to get itself off grid both with food and energy. Vinalhaven in Maine is full of resourceful folks as well and is totally wind powered.

[Mike OReilly]

Let's make sure none of this is taken too seriously. Otherwise political camps will quickly overwhelm any light, but interesting discussion that could happen here.

With that said, my first thought is to get as far away from large urban areas as possible. When the SHTF these will become death traps. Smaller areas off the beaten path are more likely to have the necessary self-supporting communities that will be needed. And idiots with boss complexes are more easily dealt with. The key to long-term survival will be finding a space, and a community that still has some understanding of how to live independently.

I think fleeing to my boat would be a good short to medium term choice. In the longer run having a stable community and chunk of productive land would probably be better. But I can already live independently on my sailboat for many months at a time. Food will likely be the major problem, but with a boat you can travel to places where restocking could be possible — and no, I’m not talking about finding a Walmart.

[Reefmagnet]

Break it down into basic elements. Soon enough systems on the boat will fail and will be difficult to replace. Navigation via GPS will be impossible from the outset. There is a need for a varied and reliable food source, fresh water and an amicable climate. Protection from marauders, zombies and mutated wild life in general that comes from these sort of events would also need to be considered.


With this in mind, my pick would be an isolated tropical island with fringing reefs, native fruits and vegetables aplenty and natural aquifers located in a place difficult to reach by the navigate by numbers crowds.


Not sure exactly where that is, but I won't tell you when I get there

[RickG]

We lived in the Washington, DC area for a long time. Looking at plume models is key for Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical scenarios. We use Nukemap - https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/

Being upwind from major targets is key. Dominica looks good with plenty of water and agriculture.

Cheers, RickG

[newhaul]

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...at-156715.html
We discussed this a few times a few years ago. This is one of the threads

Here is another
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ats-91417.html

[Ruso]

Originally Posted by Buzzman

Yet you have a boat.....well equipped (you define).

Sooooo, where would you go, and why...??

Unless she equipped with weapons and ammo plus a few a good friends.
Otherwise I stick with my weapons and friends in my hometown.

Sail away - idealistic approach.. Population on remote places likes us because we bring money and some law exists to protect us locally. When it ends - you are on the mercy of locals... Some of them prefer to take from you instead of trade.