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watchkeeper · 03-07-2009, 23:21

Hi Micheal

There were a couple of things I missed last posting.
Re. self tending sails, I haven't sailed a yacht fully kitted with multi mast/multi self tending rig.
My inner staysil is set up with a club boom that will self set, boom swivel of a pintel I custom fabracted that holds the inner forestay rig screw, the tack is anchored to a curved rack via sheet/car pulley that I can adjust from the cockpit.

I've seen quite a few big schooners (3 mast) in the Med set up with all furler mounted mains and jibs sparfree set with the usual curved track/car combination. They seem to perform well and require less attention.
Shannon's designs touch on this a bit with his sketch rig, the idea being a strong but good performance rig for off shore cruisers.

Re the Mediterranean v Black Sea. The Black Sea is renown for really savage storms so all the various cultures/people making a living by fishing developed there build their boats to suit. The Black sea Turks became renown for the build quality of their fishing vessels and later the yachts they built for wealthy Turks. The finish was a bit agricultural but the hulls were very good. My yacht was designed by an expat NA working in Italy. He produced the original design/specs for the owner who commissioned the build in a Blk Sea shipyard.

Cold moulded or laminated hulls are excellent if the builder knows his epoxy materials, has climate control and uses good timber. The concept started in NZ in the 1950's based on the WWII US PT Boats using ply on hardchine. The universal method now is strip plank 2 layers diagonal, a third horizontal layer first or last.
If I was building a cruiser using this method I would finish with a layer of Corecell to provide a fairing base and additional protection against dings and worm.
The most critical issue is sealing the inner surface against dry rot. This method of build does not tolerate damp and contary to what many say internal timber hulls do not need to be left unfinished to breath. Sealed timber is happy rot free timber and needs protection just as we seal a steel hull.
I surveyed to very well built cold moulded yachts last year both 85' 2million euro apiece that had mast seal leaks. Fresh water had sat a year or more in a difficult to reach compartment and rotted the outer shell.

If you are intending to buy second hand in Turkey you will find depending on price range one suitable hull per 100. I would suggest avioding square forefoot clipper bow hulls, built in Bodrum yards by the dozen. Marmaris hulls are not worth considering, the best built earlier hulls came from Istanbul and Black Sea yards but the hull designs vary from awful to quite good.

There are some good steel hulls built in Turkey which I think are more suitable for knock about cruising hulls suitable in unknown waters.
Considering the chances of rupture or sprung planks from collision with whales and junk inshore and blue water these days, steel by comparison is easily repaired, takes a pounding, easy to modify and with timber decks, upper works etc is just as traditional.

There are fire resistant insulations availible now to warm and improve hull accoustics and have also limited penertration damage when parked on a reef.
Maintenance levels are simular, your have more internal volume plus its easy to weld in a flange to mount light weight ply water tight bulk heads.

If you want to post an temporary email address I'll send you my contact details..I'm reluctant to post my priv or biz contacts. Last time I did that I got a 100 plus spam per day from freaks and 419 scamers.

03-07-2009, 23:21	#25
watchkeeper Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 7	Hi Micheal There were a couple of things I missed last posting. Re. self tending sails, I haven't sailed a yacht fully kitted with multi mast/multi self tending rig. My inner staysil is set up with a club boom that will self set, boom swivel of a pintel I custom fabracted that holds the inner forestay rig screw, the tack is anchored to a curved rack via sheet/car pulley that I can adjust from the cockpit. I've seen quite a few big schooners (3 mast) in the Med set up with all furler mounted mains and jibs sparfree set with the usual curved track/car combination. They seem to perform well and require less attention. Shannon's designs touch on this a bit with his sketch rig, the idea being a strong but good performance rig for off shore cruisers. Re the Mediterranean v Black Sea. The Black Sea is renown for really savage storms so all the various cultures/people making a living by fishing developed there build their boats to suit. The Black sea Turks became renown for the build quality of their fishing vessels and later the yachts they built for wealthy Turks. The finish was a bit agricultural but the hulls were very good. My yacht was designed by an expat NA working in Italy. He produced the original design/specs for the owner who commissioned the build in a Blk Sea shipyard. Cold moulded or laminated hulls are excellent if the builder knows his epoxy materials, has climate control and uses good timber. The concept started in NZ in the 1950's based on the WWII US PT Boats using ply on hardchine. The universal method now is strip plank 2 layers diagonal, a third horizontal layer first or last. If I was building a cruiser using this method I would finish with a layer of Corecell to provide a fairing base and additional protection against dings and worm. The most critical issue is sealing the inner surface against dry rot. This method of build does not tolerate damp and contary to what many say internal timber hulls do not need to be left unfinished to breath. Sealed timber is happy rot free timber and needs protection just as we seal a steel hull. I surveyed to very well built cold moulded yachts last year both 85' 2million euro apiece that had mast seal leaks. Fresh water had sat a year or more in a difficult to reach compartment and rotted the outer shell. If you are intending to buy second hand in Turkey you will find depending on price range one suitable hull per 100. I would suggest avioding square forefoot clipper bow hulls, built in Bodrum yards by the dozen. Marmaris hulls are not worth considering, the best built earlier hulls came from Istanbul and Black Sea yards but the hull designs vary from awful to quite good. There are some good steel hulls built in Turkey which I think are more suitable for knock about cruising hulls suitable in unknown waters. Considering the chances of rupture or sprung planks from collision with whales and junk inshore and blue water these days, steel by comparison is easily repaired, takes a pounding, easy to modify and with timber decks, upper works etc is just as traditional. There are fire resistant insulations availible now to warm and improve hull accoustics and have also limited penertration damage when parked on a reef. Maintenance levels are simular, your have more internal volume plus its easy to weld in a flange to mount light weight ply water tight bulk heads. If you want to post an temporary email address I'll send you my contact details..I'm reluctant to post my priv or biz contacts. Last time I did that I got a 100 plus spam per day from freaks and 419 scamers.