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roverhi · 27-11-2005, 11:56

How do you get cement to stick to cement. Doesn't work worth a damn patching a sidewalk, hope it works better on an FC boat.

If you have compression damage on a steel hull, you cut out the damage weld in a new piece. In an FRP hull, you cut out the damage and laminate up a new section with the new resin bonding to the old. Suppose you could bust out the old concrete and do the same with Ferro. The old armature would have to remain intact or you would lose the strength which is really in the steel, not the cement. You also have the bond problem with new and old cement. Seems like the only way to patch a ferro hull is with an Epoxy laminate. You still have the problem of stabilizing the armature in that case, however. Can't see that patching ferro is 'easy.'

If you want a quick, actually not so, and dirty boat, cement will work. Especially if you are talking backyard construction. If you are looking at a sailboat as a place not to have all your money sink, then it is a poor material. People are just not willing to pay for the cost of quality ferro boat. Having built a boat from a bare hull, can tell you that less than a quarter of the cost of a sailboat is in the hull. A shame to piss all that money away on a ferro hull.

We built our boat in a Ferro boatyard. A great herd of 40'+ Sampson designs. Most were begun in a messianic trance by disciples of Sampson who had bought the hype. By the time we got there, most of the original owners had lost their faith and givren away their sweat equity for pennies on the dollar. Some of the hulls were on their 3rd or more owner in less than 10 years.

None of the hulls were schlock projects. All the armatures were made to rigid design specifications, plastered by experienced professionals, and each stage inspected and attested to by a reputable marine surveyor. Even with all that care, 50' hulls were selling for way less than half what a Westsail 32 bare hull was going for.

We were in the yard for a year, finished our boat and went sailing. We stopped by ten years later and nearly all the hulls were still there. Believe out of 15 or so relics, only two had been launched in nearly 20 years. It was a field of dreams for which the players never showed up. That really isn't the fault of the strength or integrity of the hulls but speaks to the value.

As far as crazing, small cracks, of ferro hulls, it seems to be inherent in the concrete. All the boats in this yard had some crazing. Don't believe it's structurally significant unless it allows salt water to penetrate to the armature and rust it to oblivian. Most of the owners were resigned to putting a thin skin of epoxy on the hulls to seal the concrete.

As far as ultimate structural strength, I'm sceptical. Have seen one and personally know of another ferro hull that didn't have much impact strength. You are telling me all the other ferro sinkings are the result of insurance fraud not structural problems. Maybe yes, maybe no but in any case it is a big red warning flag for a purchaser.

So if you are looking for a deal and find a quality ferro boat, buy it real cheap. Then hope someone is at the other end when you try and sell it.

Aloha
Peter O.

27-11-2005, 11:56	#62
roverhi Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Kona, Hawaii Boat: Pearson 35 #108 Posts: 739	How do you get cement to stick to cement. Doesn't work worth a damn patching a sidewalk, hope it works better on an FC boat. If you have compression damage on a steel hull, you cut out the damage weld in a new piece. In an FRP hull, you cut out the damage and laminate up a new section with the new resin bonding to the old. Suppose you could bust out the old concrete and do the same with Ferro. The old armature would have to remain intact or you would lose the strength which is really in the steel, not the cement. You also have the bond problem with new and old cement. Seems like the only way to patch a ferro hull is with an Epoxy laminate. You still have the problem of stabilizing the armature in that case, however. Can't see that patching ferro is 'easy.' If you want a quick, actually not so, and dirty boat, cement will work. Especially if you are talking backyard construction. If you are looking at a sailboat as a place not to have all your money sink, then it is a poor material. People are just not willing to pay for the cost of quality ferro boat. Having built a boat from a bare hull, can tell you that less than a quarter of the cost of a sailboat is in the hull. A shame to piss all that money away on a ferro hull. We built our boat in a Ferro boatyard. A great herd of 40'+ Sampson designs. Most were begun in a messianic trance by disciples of Sampson who had bought the hype. By the time we got there, most of the original owners had lost their faith and givren away their sweat equity for pennies on the dollar. Some of the hulls were on their 3rd or more owner in less than 10 years. None of the hulls were schlock projects. All the armatures were made to rigid design specifications, plastered by experienced professionals, and each stage inspected and attested to by a reputable marine surveyor. Even with all that care, 50' hulls were selling for way less than half what a Westsail 32 bare hull was going for. We were in the yard for a year, finished our boat and went sailing. We stopped by ten years later and nearly all the hulls were still there. Believe out of 15 or so relics, only two had been launched in nearly 20 years. It was a field of dreams for which the players never showed up. That really isn't the fault of the strength or integrity of the hulls but speaks to the value. As far as crazing, small cracks, of ferro hulls, it seems to be inherent in the concrete. All the boats in this yard had some crazing. Don't believe it's structurally significant unless it allows salt water to penetrate to the armature and rust it to oblivian. Most of the owners were resigned to putting a thin skin of epoxy on the hulls to seal the concrete. As far as ultimate structural strength, I'm sceptical. Have seen one and personally know of another ferro hull that didn't have much impact strength. You are telling me all the other ferro sinkings are the result of insurance fraud not structural problems. Maybe yes, maybe no but in any case it is a big red warning flag for a purchaser. So if you are looking for a deal and find a quality ferro boat, buy it real cheap. Then hope someone is at the other end when you try and sell it. Aloha Peter O.