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senormechanico 27-07-2012 19:38

Re: solder
 
I hope nobody from the "Crimp vs. Solder" thread hears about this discussion or it will go on forever!

Jbaffoh 27-07-2012 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by senormechanico
I hope nobody from the "Crimp vs. Solder" thread hears about this discussion or it will go on forever!

There should never, EVER, be solder on a boat--because of the vibration. Instead, solder should be reserved for things that NEVER vibrate, like stacks of guitar and bass amps, and arena-sized PA systems. Duh.

ExRonin 27-07-2012 20:01

And yes... Crimp style PL259's for RG58 are readily available... Has the advantage of protecting the dielectric core from melting as can happen when soldering.

hellosailor 27-07-2012 20:13

Re: solder
 
Crimp style fittings.<G>

I went to fix a cableTV (RG6) installation as a favor while visiting someone, and picked up a box of "patent" fittings because I didn't want to go buy a crimper and start that whole mess. All of the "crimp" connections are what I call "patent" fittings, each one is some special patented mousetrap available from only one source and they all look SO FINE.

After finishing the job twice and throwing out two patent fittings because they obviously were the point where the signal was going down the toilet, I bought a regular compression crimper and regular fittings and voila, full signal.

Same same for PL259 patent fittings. There are some beautiful gold-flashed ones at West that sure look like they'd secure anything but when all is said and done, once you know how to solder them, the old fashioned PL259s are the most durable, least expensive,best connection and the only argument is whether to get them bright, or silver-plated. (Silver conductors better unless it tarnishes.)

Oh, my soldering gun? A 1960's Wen, the cheap competitor to Weller at the time. Bought with PLAID STAMPS and still working all these years later.

Boulter-
It could also be the salesman just sold him the wrong PL-259s. Or if they were in a box on the shelf...West, home Depot, doesn't matter, if there are boxes of parts on the shelf, someone always goes around tossing the jellybeans in the wrong boxes, if you know what I mean.

best advice I've ever heard for teaching someone to solder coax fittings of ANY kind? Buy two feet of extra cable and 4-6 extra fittings. Ruin the first two, try not to ruin the next two, by the fifth or sixth one you'll know whether you can get the knack of it, or should just take it to a shop and pay 'em the $5 to make each one up.

Along the way I suppose it is worth mentioning that the plastic dielectric separator in coax cables is NOT ALL CREATED EQUAL. A very light foam may help prevent capacitance loss (and melt quickly during soldering) while a heavy plastic with worse loss won't melt as quickly, won't absorb water, and will help support the cable in the run down the mast. All coax is not created equal, one more part of a learning curve that newbs will encounter. And sometimes, even when you compare all the cable types, none of them is right for the installation. Except the one that's out of stock, backordered to the other coast.



"There should never, EVER, be solder on a boat"
Right,mate, we'll just suck it out of the light bulbs, where it secures the base on conventional tungsten bulbs. And we'll suck it out of the battery cables, souvenir of when there was no crimping tool around and we had to use cable lugs from a commercial electrical supply house, where they solder the heavy power cables in elevators. I think that one's been in service 20 years now.
And a few more mundane places. Check inside your VHF and instruments, there's a LOT of soldering done in there, even though wire wrap connections have a failure rate over ten times lower than soldered ones.

The trick is to realy understand the physics and mechanics and sometimes even the chemistry behind all of the "stuff" you are working in, with, and around. Understand what it is and how it fits in the larger picture, and "right and wrong" suddenly become a much wider spectrum.

Jbaffoh 27-07-2012 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellosailor
Crimp style fittings.<G>

I went to fix a cableTV (RG6) installation as a favor while visiting someone, and picked up a box of "patent" fittings because I didn't want to go buy a crimper and start that whole mess. All of the "crimp" connections are what I call "patent" fittings, each one is some special patented mousetrap available from only one source and they all look SO FINE.

After finishing the job twice and throwing out two patent fittings because they obviously were the point where the signal was going down the toilet, I bought a regular compression crimper and regular fittings and voila, full signal.

Same same for PL259 patent fittings. There are some beautiful gold-flashed ones at West that sure look like they'd secure anything but when all is said and done, once you know how to solder them, the old fashioned PL259s are the most durable, least expensive,best connection and the only argument is whether to get them bright, or silver-plated. (Silver conductors better unless it tarnishes.)

Oh, my soldering gun? A 1960's Wen, the cheap competitor to Weller at the time. Bought with PLAID STAMPS and still working all these years later.

Boulter-
It could also be the salesman just sold him the wrong PL-259s. Or if they were in a box on the shelf...West, home Depot, doesn't matter, if there are boxes of parts on the shelf, someone always goes around tossing the jellybeans in the wrong boxes, if you know what I mean.

best advice I've ever heard for teaching someone to solder coax fittings of ANY kind? Buy two feet of extra cable and 4-6 extra fittings. Ruin the first two, try not to ruin the next two, by the fifth or sixth one you'll know whether you can get the knack of it, or should just take it to a shop and pay 'em the $5 to make each one up.

"There should never, EVER, be solder on a boat"
Right,mate, we'll just suck it out of the light bulbs, where it secures the base on conventional tungsten bulbs. And we'll suck it out of the battery cables, souvenir of when there was no crimping tool around and we had to use cable lugs from a commercial electrical supply house, where they solder the heavy power cables in elevators. I think that one's been in service 20 years now.
And a few more mundane places. Check inside your VHF and instruments, there's a LOT of soldering done in there, even though wire wrap connections have a failure rate over ten times lower than soldered ones.

The trick is to realy understand the physics and mechanics and sometimes even the chemistry behind all of the "stuff" you are working in, with, and around. Understand what it is and how it fits in the larger picture, and "right and wrong" suddenly become a much wider spectrum.

If you read my comment as a whole, it should be obvious I was joking. There were peeps on that other thread who actually said solder should never be used--I was parodying them.

I swear this forum is unique in people's seeming inability to connect two sentences to find meaning. Paragraphs are thoughts. Sentences are the building blocks used to complete those thoughts.

hellosailor 27-07-2012 20:39

Re: solder
 
"it should be obvious I was joking."
Shoulda, woulda, coulda.
Sometimes you just need to know that people are only good to read what you write. Which is why there's a whole barrel of emoticons to ensure that your tone of voice can be added to the words.
And personally, I'd suggest that each sentence (not paragraph) is a thought. Paragraphs are how we organize them and extend them into larger concepts. If a paragraph was a thought, then each of the sentences in it would be...less than one cohesive thought. Nope, that don't work.
Except for two crucial weeks I missed in grade school grammar classes, I got taught most of it including how to write in pyramid style. And, that satire will never totally hit or miss its mark, you gotta do something to clue the rubes.

Jbaffoh 27-07-2012 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellosailor
"it should be obvious I was joking."
Shoulda, woulda, coulda.
Sometimes you just need to know that people are only good to read what you write. Which is why there's a whole barrel of emoticons to ensure that your tone of voice can be added to the words.
And personally, I'd suggest that each sentence (not paragraph) is a thought. Paragraphs are how we organize them and extend them into larger concepts. If a paragraph was a thought, then each of the sentences in it would be...less than one cohesive thought. Nope, that don't work.
Except for two crucial weeks I missed in grade school grammar classes, I got taught most of it including how to write in pyramid style. And, that satire will never totally hit or miss its mark, you gotta do something to clue the rubes.

Suggest all you want, but your qualifications are belied by your punctuation. I won't cite my qualifications here.

FYI, a stack of guitar or bass amplifiers--or an arena PA, for that matter--are DESIGNED to vibrate far more than any boat. Are you getting the sarcastic irony here? Those speaker cabinets blow your pant legs, pound your rib cage, and shake brick walls. Fifty years later, it's not very common to find failed solder joints.

nickn 28-07-2012 04:28

Re: solder
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hellosailor (Post 1000271)
You heat the working surfaces to the point where touching the solder to them, will cause the solder to melt and flow. You never, ever, use the soldering iron to heat the solder directly.

With one proviso, there must be a small amount of solder between the soldering iron and the work, air is a good insulator and the chances that a big flat iron is perfectly flush with the big round connector is close to zero. You may want to touch a small amount of solder to the junction between the iron and the work, then you will find the work heats up really quick and you can touch solder to that.

fairbank56 28-07-2012 05:35

Re: solder
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShipShape (Post 1000201)
Not ok, and I mean NOT in mile-high letters, was the ANCOR RG-213 coax cable. PL-259 connectors do NOT fit over the ANCOR RG-213 cable housing.

Are you aware that the connector doesn't simply slide over the cable jacket, but is tightly threaded over it? Iv'e never had a problem with that cable.

I'm a marine electronics service tech by profession and I've literally replaced hundreds of PL259's over my 37 year career. It is thee number 1 problem found when troubleshooting VHF/HF installation faults. I just shake my head and laugh at the crappy jobs Iv'e seen. It's not really something for a DIY'er unless your prepared to purchase several connectors, waste some cable, and practice practice practice...until your good at it. Even many "pro's" do a botched job of it.

Here's a little web page I threw up years ago showing an installation method.

Eric

conachair 28-07-2012 05:54

Re: solder
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jbaffoh (Post 1000410)
If you read my comment as a whole, it should be obvious I was joking. There were peeps on that other thread who actually said solder should never be used--I was parodying them.

I swear this forum is unique in people's seeming inability to connect two sentences to find meaning. Paragraphs are thoughts. Sentences are the building blocks used to complete those thoughts.

:D:D :cool:

I almost missed it first time, but slightly subtle is funnier. :D Though pretty obvious if you actually read the all words. That's the tricky bit.

Tis not unique, tis the tinterweb, ever will it be so. :popcorn:

What about lead solder? Pretty hard to find this side of the pond, is it easy to get west side of the pond?

Maine Sail 28-07-2012 06:04

Re: solder
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fairbank56 (Post 1000566)
Are you aware that the connector doesn't simply slide over the cable jacket, but is tightly threaded over it? Iv'e never had a problem with that cable.

I'm a marine electronics service tech by profession and I've literally replaced hundreds of PL259's over my 37 year career. It is thee number 1 problem found when troubleshooting VHF/HF installation faults. I just shake my head and laugh at the crappy jobs Iv'e seen. It's not really something for a DIY'er unless your prepared to purchase several connectors, waste some cable, and practice practice practice...until your good at it. Even many "pro's" do a botched job of it.

Here's a little web page I threw up years ago showing an installation method.

Eric

Bingo...! Problem becomes when you are 60' up swinging in a chair, with wind and no matter how good you are soldering the braid just is not going to work very well. I switched over to a crimp/solder version and have not had a single failure. Still needs to be done right and requires tools but can be done repeatably at the top of a spar...

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/i...990/medium.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/i...627/medium.jpg

fairbank56 28-07-2012 06:21

Re: solder
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maine Sail (Post 1000582)
Bingo...! Problem becomes when you are 60' up swinging in a chair, with wind and no matter how good you are soldering the braid just is not going to work very well.

That's for sure. I actually have a large rather thick clear plastic bag that Iv'e used in that situation. Just pull it over my head and work area to block the wind, but I do use crimp connectors a lot now. Not just PL259's but TNC's, BNC's, mini-UHF...etc. Done properly with the proper crimp tools, they are just as good as soldered.

There is also a clamp style PL259 that I use. They are rare and a bit hard to find but come in handy when soldering would be a tough option.

Eric

Clamp style:

http://home.comcast.net/~fairbank56/pl259clamp.jpg

Solder style and crimp styles:

http://home.comcast.net/~fairbank56/connectors.jpg

Cheechako 28-07-2012 08:41

Re: solder
 
Looking back, the beer in my system may have contributed to my failing to let the iron fully heat up. I have more patience now.
Ha!

tuberider 29-07-2012 04:03

Re: solder
 
i have a weller 100-140 gun but the pl259 just doesn't seem to get hot enough. i leave the gun on the connector for at least 20 seconds, but doesn't seem to get hot enough. any more then that and i worry about damage. i'm hoping hotter weller gun will work better.also i've never seen the pl259 that crimps, where can you buy the pl259 and the crimper tool. does the sleeve that goes over the crimp ,as in the picture, come with the pl259

Wotname 29-07-2012 05:30

Re: solder
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tuberider (Post 1001119)
i have a weller 100-140 gun but the pl259 just doesn't seem to get hot enough. i leave the gun on the connector for at least 20 seconds, but doesn't seem to get hot enough. any more then that and i worry about damage. i'm hoping hotter weller gun will work better.also i've never seen the pl259 that crimps, where can you buy the pl259 and the crimper tool. does the sleeve that goes over the crimp ,as in the picture, come with the pl259

Yes :)


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