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lockie 10-12-2011 15:46

Seized Outboard
 
My 2hp 2-stroke yamaha went for a salty swim unfortunately. I cleaned the water out of the fuel system and ran it for awhile, but obviously not long enough as it wouldn't budge next start a couple of weeks later. I disassembled it and was greeted with the sight of rust in the crankcase. After much WD40 and gentle (ie with hands only) persuasion, all the bearings are free and turning pretty smoothly.

I'm sure it will run when I reassemble it, but the question is, after all that rust will the bearings just quickly grind themselves to death? Or will I get a reasonable lifespan out of it? Maybe use a richer oil fuel mix?

It is only used for short periods (5 minutes from shore to yacht and back) 99% of the time, so I can live with a reduced lifespan. But if that lifespan is likely to only be very short, I guess I should rebuild or replace it now.

lockie

Ex-Calif 10-12-2011 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by lockie
My 2hp 2-stroke yamaha went for a salty swim unfortunately. I cleaned the water out of the fuel system and ran it for awhile, but obviously not long enough as it wouldn't budge next start a couple of weeks later. I disassembled it and was greeted with the sight of rust in the crankcase. After much WD40 and gentle (ie with hands only) persuasion, all the bearings are free and turning pretty smoothly.

I'm sure it will run when I reassemble it, but the question is, after all that rust will the bearings just quickly grind themselves to death? Or will I get a reasonable lifespan out of it? Maybe use a richer oil fuel mix?

It is only used for short periods (5 minutes from shore to yacht and back) 99% of the time, so I can live with a reduced lifespan. But if that lifespan is likely to only be very short, I guess I should rebuild or replace it now.

lockie

Bearing technology like all technologies can be very high. The idea is the bearing rides on a film of oil between the ball and the race. This delicate balance can be disturbed by any contaminant on the ball or race. The contaminant allows skidding which leads to metal to metal which leads to spalling which leads to failure. Think shopping cart with a flat spot on a wheel. It never gets better.

You may have got the bearings to free but you don't really know if the rust has pitted the ball or the race. On some micro level it has.

There arer lots of stories about outboards taking a bath and then running fine for a long time. To me it is an economic and reliability decision.

How much to fix now?
How important is my engine? If it failed could I live without it for a while or is it critical to ops
What is my proximity to future repairs. If I am in the boonies can I get it fixed?

If it were me and I could assure no visible pitting on the balls or races and it ran. I'd run it and probably drain the oil in 10 hours or so cut open the filter and see if the bearings are making chips.

I have heard enough of these stories first hand that my engine is lashed to my stern rail from the lift handle. The deadman switch is connected to the boat. If the engine jumps its bracket the theory is the deadman stops the motor before it submerges and the rope stops it from completely submerging or sinking.

True story - a friend had his outboard jump the mount while he was steering it. It kept running, he managed to hang on to the throttle handle but it was like wrestling a steer and he was unable to reduce the throttle as he was holding on to it for dear life. He ultimately got it under control but what a ride!

Jesse 10-12-2011 16:11

Re: Seized outboard
 
If the bore and rings are fine just replace the bearings and seals while it's apart. Then all doubt is removed. Happy sailing.

maxingout 10-12-2011 18:30

Re: Seized outboard
 
After the global tsunami in Thailand, I dunked my outboard in the water. I got it running after about six hours of work. It lasted all the way back to the Caribbean from Thailand for a year and a half. Then it seized up never to run again.

Once they are dunked, the clock starts ticking and you never know how long they will last.

I think that on the long passages, when the engine isn't run for weeks at a time, the rust on the inside of the engine has an opportunity to do some real damage. Once the engine has had water on the inside, I think they need to be run more regularly than an engine that has never been submerged.

cal40john 10-12-2011 18:44

Re: Seized outboard
 
He said it's a 2 stroke. He'd have to saturate the bearings with something spray on repeatedly is my guess.

John


Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif (Post 835576)
Bearing technology like all technologies can be very high. The idea is the bearing rides on a film of oil between the ball and the race. This delicate balance can be disturbed by any contaminant on the ball or race. The contaminant allows skidding which leads to metal to metal which leads to spalling which leads to failure. Think shopping cart with a flat spot on a wheel. It never gets better.

You may have got the bearings to free but you don't really know if the rust has pitted the ball or the race. On some micro level it has.

There arer lots of stories about outboards taking a bath and then running fine for a long time. To me it is an economic and reliability decision.

How much to fix now?
How important is my engine? If it failed could I live without it for a while or is it critical to ops
What is my proximity to future repairs. If I am in the boonies can I get it fixed?

If it were me and I could assure no visible pitting on the balls or races and it ran. I'd run it and probably drain the oil in 10 hours or so cut open the filter and see if the bearings are making chips.

I have heard enough of these stories first hand that my engine is lashed to my stern rail from the lift handle. The deadman switch is connected to the boat. If the engine jumps its bracket the theory is the deadman stops the motor before it submerges and the rope stops it from completely submerging or sinking.

True story - a friend had his outboard jump the mount while he was steering it. It kept running, he managed to hang on to the throttle handle but it was like wrestling a steer and he was unable to reduce the throttle as he was holding on to it for dear life. He ultimately got it under control but what a ride!


onestepcsy37 10-12-2011 20:05

Re: Seized outboard
 
i've got the same engine, and although i've never dunked it (yet!) i have had it apart.

i'd take it apart and clean it up as much as possible, then go run it hard. just going back and forth to the dock is not terribly good for the engine because the engine gets lubricated only when it's running, by the oil in the gas/oil mix, and i would guess that at this point you probably want to get it well lubricated.

you can also run it at a 50:1 oil mix, instead of the recommended 100:1. it will run fine and might just coat the rings and bearings with a bit more oil. i regularly run mine with a bit extra oil in the mix (probably about 80:1) because i'm in salt water and i'm guessing it needs the extra lube, what with all that salt in the air it's sucking in.

it's a great old engine; don't know what i'm going to do when it finally dies and i have to buy a four stroke...

Wotname 10-12-2011 21:41

Re: Seized outboard
 
Lockie, I have had two engines completely dunked; both 2HP 2 strokes - one by me and the other by an acquaintance. Both survived and I still have one some 15 years later!

The first one was running at the time of dunking, fell off the transom, no safety rope - dumb. Anyway after diving for for a hour or so, we retrieved it from about 15' down. Stripped it down in the cockpit and soaked all the bits we could possibly pull off in fresh water, then flushed flushed flushed with more fresh water then with kero (from the stove). Reassembled and surprisingly it ran and we used it for another 9 months or so (almost daily) and then sold it along with the yacht.

The second was a little different and more resembles your situation. It was statically dunked by someone who had borrowed it for a few weeks. He gave it a quick wash down with fresh water but did not pull it apart. After drying out it ran for a day or so after which he stopped using it. When he finally returned it to me, it was seized - surprise surprise.

I pulled it down and found the main bearing seized and the piston a little tight. Took all the bearings out and down to the local bearing shop. They measured them and found the right ones off the shelf and I went home with about $20 of bearings.

The piston was eased out, the rings removed and everything was lightly hand honed with very fine wet and dry. Carby was removed and cleaned and everything reassembled. It ran fine and I ran it for 4 or 5 hours in the tank. That was 15 years back and although I don't use it much, it still runs OK.

The moral: go buy some over the counter bearings from CBC or whatever your local bearing shop is and carefully re-build the engine; you might be lucky, I was!

Celestialsailor 11-12-2011 22:18

Re: Seized Outboard
 
This is one of the reasons I run a 4 stroke

lockie 11-12-2011 23:51

Re: Seized outboard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wotname (Post 835724)
The moral: go buy some over the counter bearings from CBC or whatever your local bearing shop is and carefully re-build the engine; you might be lucky, I was!

Sounds good. How did you get the bearings off? The outer shells are too close to the crank counterweights for a puller and I don't want to go jemmying and prising and put the crank out of alignment.

Celestial sailor - I'm intrigued as to why a 4 stroke is immune to immersion? Yes I guess the crankcase is protected but there's valve gear and all the rest.........

lockie

Wotname 12-12-2011 02:01

Re: Seized outboard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lockie (Post 836407)
Sounds good. How did you get the bearings off? The outer shells are too close to the crank counterweights for a puller and I don't want to go jemmying and prising and put the crank out of alignment.
........
lockie

You asking me to push the grey matter a bit now - it was 15 years back! I think I pried and jemmied a bit with the usual - screwdrivers, hammers and so on. I know I just did it at home with no special tooling. Does the crank split? - sorry I can't remember the detail :(

lockie 13-12-2011 02:37

Re: Seized Outboard
 
The bearings came off with some fairly gentle prising with a screwdriver each side, so thanks for that. I think I'll just live with the risk so far as the piston gudgeon and big end go as they feel pretty smooth. Maybe soak them in oil before I reassemble, then run an oil-rich mix for the first couple of tankfulls.

Now off to the bearing shop..........

Cheers, lockie

forsailbyowner 13-12-2011 03:43

Re: Seized Outboard
 
I freed a friends new merc outboard for him and soaked the whole thing with penetrating oil cylinder and crankcase. The carb was a problem. When I stopped to see him later it was froze again. later I was told by a friend that he dunked and pickled his motor and it was frozen every morning untill he got the electrical parts to fix it. He said that until it gets run it will keep freezing up.

Philip R. McGovern 14-12-2011 14:22

A honey of a seizure !

During the off season, bees crawled into the exhaust port of my 15 hp Yamaha Enduro 2 cycle and covered both pistons and cylinders with honey which had the consistency of tar.

Luckily, I had a spare head gasket, so we opened it up and sprayed penetrating oil everywhere and let it soak overnight. Next day, it gradually got easier and easier to turn and finally started and ran. Sweet! Ha, ha.

I'll add some extra oil to the next tank or two of fuel and plug up the exhaust port at the end of the season.

IMHO, with a seized engine, chemicals and patience are your best friends.

Phil
s/v Sunshine
PDQ36
Rio Dulce, Guatemala

lockie 15-12-2011 15:59

Re: Seized Outboard
 
A lesson learned for me is that as per quite a few of the recommended procedures I'd read, I squirted lots of WD40 into the plug-hole. So far so good, but for 2-strokes, this doesn't do anything for the crank, so sqiurting lots of WD40 into the carbie while turning the engine over would have helped prevent it seizing.

So, I was dumb then but now I'm really smart, maybe even smart enough to keep the o/b above the waterline from now on.......

Thanks to all who posted help - gasket kit and bearings are on the way, and hopefully the o/b will be up and runnning again in a few days.

cheers, lockie

lockie 25-12-2011 14:38

Re: Seized Outboard
 
Having trouble getting parts in Oz. Can anyone recommend a nice friendly dealer in the USA who will ship Yamaha o/b parts to Oz?

Thanks, lockie


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