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-   -   Type I MSD (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f115/type-i-msd-59593.html)

redcobra 26-04-2011 16:41

Type I MSD
 
Does any one besides Electro Scan make a Type I MSD for use on a 39' sailboat?

peghall 27-04-2011 10:05

Re: Type I MSD
 
Several mfrs did make Type Is--and there are a whole bunch of Type II (for vessels over 65') mfrs--but the only other Type I that I know of is the Groco ThermoPure...which needs both 115v and DC power and has a price tag that starts around $2500. However, Raritan--who makes the ElectroScan (newest version of the Lectra/San renamed)--also makes the PuraSan, which doesn't need salt. It was designed work in fresh water or with toilets that use onboard pressurized flush water, but works equally well in salt water. It costs a bit less and also uses less power than the ElectroScan...check it out here: Raritan Purasan

redcobra 27-04-2011 12:17

Re: Type I MSD
 
Anybody have experience with either the new LectroScan or the Purisan?
Seems the Purisan requires less amps/cycle than the LectroScan but works with pressurized heads.
I was going to stick with my manual head.
It's so darn hard to find and get to pump out stations in the upper Chesapeake I was thinking of swapping out the holding tank for the Type I device.
Any comments, Please?

mike d. 27-04-2011 13:40

Re: Type I MSD
 
unless something has changed in the no discharge regs you cannot use a Lectro-San/Scan head as type 1 EPA and local authorities do not recognize this system although Coast Guard did for sometime when Raritan first brought them out in the 70s. this is/was because many boaters didn't use them correctly or at all and municipalities along the water didn't believe the systems worked from what i can find out. we have in this boat 1979 GulfStar and had it in our 1969 Trojan. both worked flawlessly but even here in North East Mass. the powers that be don't recognize it as Type 1 and demand pump out and or going at least 3 miles out to dump

peghall 27-04-2011 18:23

Re: Type I MSD
 
The PuraSan works with ANY toilet--manual, electric, sea water or pressurized fresh water. And it IS legal everywhere on the Chesapeake Bay except Herring Bay, which is the only "no discharge" zone on the Bay.

peghall 27-04-2011 19:02

Re: Type I MSD
 
Mike, you're confused the LectraSan/ElectroScan, PuraSan and other USCG certified Type I MSDs with the original Raritan Crown Head (which is what had to be in your pre-1980 boats), and which, unlike real Type I and II MSDs, IS a toilet.

The Crown Head was one of the very first macerating electric toilets...it also had/has a chemical reservoir that shot little chemical (Raritan Concentrate) at the flush as it went down the discharge line on its way to the thru-hull....and because it did macerate and knock down bacteria at least a little, the CG issued a waiver allowing it to be used in lieu of a real treatment device for a few years. But once all the marine sanitation regs were in place in the CFR, which happened in the early '80s, that waiver was withdrawn. But the Crown Head wasn't the only device that the CG allowed to be used in lieu of a tank or a treatment device...Wilcox Crittenden and Danforth (yes, the anchor Danforth company) had "macerator chlorinators" that could be used with any toilet. Those ceased to be approved at the same time the Crown Head lost its waiver.

That waiver has caused a lot of consternation among boat owners on non-navigable inland lakes, all of which are "no discharge" under federal law. However, 40 CFR 140.3 has a clause in it that "grandfathers" any REAL Type I or II installed on a boat built before 1980, on which the device was also installed before 1980, allowing it to be used in lieu of a tank for "the life of the device"...iow, as long as it can be kept working. There are a whole BUNCH of old farts who own boats built before 1980 that also have pre-1980 Crown Heads on 'em who were convinced their boats were "grandfathered"...and some of 'em STILL do! :)

Today's Type I MSDs aren't toilets...they're devices into which the toilet flushes, where waste is treated and discharged overboard. Mfrs must submit a prototype to a USCG approved lab, where it's tested...the results then sent to the CG with a recommendation to certify or not. And each device must be recertified every 5 years. The whole certification process is spelled out in 33 CFR 159.11-19 if you want to read it.

The devices on your pre 1980 boats wouldn't be considered legal treatment devices anywhere in the US, even in waters where the discharge of treated waste is legal... but you wouldn't be able to use a modern Type I in most of the waters of MA, nor in any RI or CT waters, because they've been designated "no discharge"...making holding tanks the only legal option. However, the discharge of treated waste from a CG certified Type I or II device IS legal in 95% of coastal waters between New England the FL Keys. You might want to see what's out there today...and how the various devices work. Raritan Waste Treatment

redcobra 28-04-2011 11:01

Re: Type I MSD
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by peghall (Post 675954)
The PuraSan works with ANY toilet--manual, electric, sea water or pressurized fresh water. And it IS legal everywhere on the Chesapeake Bay except Herring Bay, which is the only "no discharge" zone on the Bay.

Thank you.

Pblais 28-04-2011 12:18

Re: Type I MSD
 
We have a Purosan and it's about 4 years old. It works quite well and because of the HypoCholride tablet that is mixed with water on each flush it does require less power than electrosan units that only use salt. The power saving is significant. The tablets last a long time but require hazmat shipping charges. If you buy them two at a time you save money.

I would use this again. We also use a macerating head with pressurize fresh water but as noted above it isn't required but is nice. It is a good system and the treatment cycle works well. Beats hauling poop around in a tank. The unit is about the size of a group 4 battery and needs to be secured down. It does require pressuized water to run the celonoids that work the chloride injector and is wired to the treatment button. You flush clean then treat after each use. It uses just a small shot of water maybe 8 oz. more or less with each flush so it isn't much fresh water used. It needs to be witerized as does the treatment unit. It's not rocket science to install or maintain.

GordMay 28-04-2011 12:23

Re: Type I MSD
 
Raritan makes the Electro San Type I MSD.

Check out the Approvals listing #159.015
USCG CGMIX EQList Search Page

peghall 28-04-2011 12:34

Re: Type I MSD
 
Paul, there are two versions of the PuraSan...one for toilets that use pressurized fresh water and one for toilets that use sea water. Yours is the one for pressurized water. The sea water version doesn't need pressurized water or any solenoids.

Pblais 28-04-2011 12:55

Re: Type I MSD
 
Quote:

The sea water version doesn't need pressurized water or any solenoids.
Does it still use HypoChloride?

Alecadi 28-04-2011 13:13

Re: Type I MSD
 
I have an electrosan unit taken off my old Catalina 27 a year ago for sale.
Anybody interested? Low price and complete working unit (at least when I took it off)

doug86 28-04-2011 13:21

Re: Type I MSD
 
so, where does one install a Purisan into an existing Vacuflush system? I would think that the Purisan would be plumbed between the vacuum generator and the holding tank. Is that right?

peghall 28-04-2011 15:24

Re: Type I MSD
 
Yes. There's no difference in how the two versions of the PuraSan treat waste, only in the way flush water is delivered to the system.

Sea water toilets have intake pumps that PULL flush water in, starting a siphon (which is why vented loops are needed). Toilets that use pressurized flush water need a solenoid valve that opens to allow water to be PUSHED through the system.

peghall 28-04-2011 15:26

Re: Type I MSD
 
Just curious...why are you selling it? The Keys are the only NDZ in south FL, so you can use the ES everywhere else.


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