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markpj23 08-06-2006 09:59

Another Free Anchorage Gone - How Do we Fight This??
 
I'm absolutely positive that there is NO connection between the new marina opening in National City CA this month and the San Diego Port Commission's decision this week to close the free A-8 anchorage area - guess where - just off of National City.

And I have some cheap real estate in Florida to sell ya.....

This is beginning to INFURIATE me. Miami has imposed anchoring time limits, most of Long Island / Connecticut towns & cities are rousting folks off...

There has to be a way to make our collective voices heard. :mad:

Kai Nui 08-06-2006 17:36

HMMMM? A petition? Letters to the local officials? It may be unwinnable, especially if they cite an environmental issue, but that would be the best way to get heard. Unfortunately, the powers that be can always say that boats are having a negative impact on the local environment due to waste, gray water, damage to the sea floor from anchors etc. the general public, not knowing any better, and buying into the propaganda will support anything that does not directly effect them.

SkiprJohn 08-06-2006 17:48

Mark,
If you circulate a petition I will sign it. I hate what bureaucrat "do-gooders" are doing to the rights and freedom of boaters. We have a serious problem over here in Hawaii because of governor appointed bureaucrats being in charge of something they know nothing about.
I'm a former San Diego Bay sailor from Chula Vista and will sign nearly anything protecting the freedom of sailors anywhere in the U. S..
Send me a petition by email or snail mail. Private message me.
Regards, --John--

PBzeer 08-06-2006 19:48

Simple answer.......new marina pays taxes....muni mooring field spends tax money that could be spent on more vocal and impressionable people or groups.

delmarrey 08-06-2006 20:17

Enjoy what you got while you got it!
 
Some day soon only the wealthy will be able to afford moorage/anchorage. And some day only little girls will be riding horses.:confused:

The price of progress and population...._/)

Kai Nui 08-06-2006 20:21

The price of greed and apathy:(

S/V Elusive 08-06-2006 23:00

It seems that it really doesn't matter which harbor/marina/anchorage you are in - the powers that be do NOT LIKE those who don't conform and who don't support the status quo (the powers). We ARE a minority ... and a small one at that. Unless there is some way we can think of to get one of the tree hugger organizations to buy in and raise a stink, I think we can tilt at windmills all day long - and buy Don a drink later whilst we lament our failures.

I've tried fighting the local power structure up in Moss - it just left me feeling tired, used and ineffective. The few VERY small concessions that were obtained just didn't make up for all the frustration.

In National City, the A8 anchorage seemed to draw some of our worst from amongst those that wished to anchor out - too often, the boats appeared to be derelict or adrift or people arrested for various crimes (usually against other boaters!). Obviously this didn't help the cause. And, as previously pointed out, the marina and boats therein, pay taxes and fees and royalties to the governing entity.

People of independent desires and the means to make those a reality will, in all likelihood, have to find those dreams in another country. But, like time, those spots will also errode as governments continue to attempt to affix yokes to all of "us" oxen.

I think Orwell was off by a 100 years.

Kai Nui 08-06-2006 23:34

FWIW, it wasn't all in vane. At least my dock finger floats now:D

Catamount 09-06-2006 02:45

Have you heard about "Boater Bucks"? These are slips of paper you hand to all merchants you deal with when cruising to help point out to local communities the economic impact of cruising sailors. Go to http://www.ssca.org/ and scroll down the main page. here are the direct links to the PDF files: http://www.ssca.org/useboatbucks.pdf and http://www.ssca.org/boaterbucks.pdf

Regards,

Tim

PBzeer 09-06-2006 05:27

Money talks
 
In a way, this is much like the hassle over using the power of eminent domain to take away peoples homes for high tax generating projects. Governments, be they national, state or local need money, and the more money they take in, the more they will spend and grow, needing ever more money. It's a vicious circle that will never stop as long as people expect the government to do the things they once used to do for themselves, and politicans think the only way to get elected and re-elected is to spend the taxpayers money. One need only to look at the current situation in Congress to realize, it doesn't matter which party is in control, they spend as much as they can.

Didn't mean to get up on the soapbox, but the problem is more than just local, it's a national mindset that has been growing since the Depression and all the public works projects and giveaways that came from trying to spend our way out of it. Out of the 535 members in Congress, I doubt there is more than ten that SINCERELY care about the people who elected them instead of getting re-elected.

Anyway, that's how I see it.

Regards,

Sandero 09-06-2006 06:12

Total Rubbish John, the problems are related to the fact that most of the nation's wealth ...tax revenue.. is spent on the war economy. The Iraq debacle is a perfect example of how resource which should be spent in and on and for the people is enriching the big boys in the defense establishment.

Our DOD should cut to less than a quater of its size and that would be too much spending on defense. Fact of the matter is we don't need these battle groups, stealth bombers, arsenals of nukes and a huge standing army which is always seeking new big bucks toys to have...

Further we are moving toward a regressive tax system which worhsips and rewards wealth as if the wealthy will make the world a better place for anyone but themselves.

Government in the US is largely a puppet of corporations who use the government to funnel contacts to them and shied them from the laws which are in the people's interest. Government is now paid for by the wealthy and serves them with only lip service to the needs of the VAST majority of the people.

Eminent domain can serve the people when exercised propoerly, but it is mostly used to benefit some developer for profit these days. This country was built on slave and exploited labor on land and resources which were taken from those who were here before this continent was settled. Those who weren't slaughtered we pushed into little reservations.

Now corporations are excercising a new manifest destiny and exploiting the rest of the world for the labor and resources.. all in the pursuit of wealth.

You need to do some reading... you have been drinking the cool aid.

Jef
sv Shiva
Contest 36s

PBzeer 09-06-2006 06:57

Not to get into a political discussion, but what you describe, is what has been going on as long as there have been organized governing bodies, and always will be going on. If you'll read more closely, you basically said what I did, just with different reasons, focusing on the past 6 years, rather than over a lengthier period of time. If you'll look back through history, there isn't a government that hasn't functioned as a tool of those in power, be it a free or totalitarian form. Not to mention, I don't drink Kool-Aid. I form my opinions independently, by reading all the way from the kook left, to the extreme right. Right or wrong, it's merely MY opinion, and I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with it. I don't though, need to disparage their opinions in expressing mine. After all, everyone is entiltled to their own thinking.

Regards,

Kai Nui 09-06-2006 17:46

John, you are correct. You are both approaching the same point from opposite sides. The fact is money is the motivation. Not the good of the people. I agree that people are expecting the government to do things for them that they used do do for themselves (historically speaking), but times and circumstances were quite different. The fact is, the real issue is the disconnect between the politicians (generally amongst the financial elite) and the constituants. What the politicians think their constituants want is what they are told by the people who have a voice. Usually also the financial elite. Since it is allot easier to pull into a slip every night when you have 7 figures in the cruising kitty, the loss of an anchorage in an urban area does not particularly upset the financial elite. In fact, those same people are the ones who own homes in those areas, and would rather not have to listen to a genset or loud party at night out in their private little lagoon. As for the use of tax dollars and budget shortfalls, the cost of defense, infrastructure, so on and so on could easily be supplemented by decreasing the salaries of the politicians to something slightly more inline with the average income of their constituants. Free car, free housing, expensed meals, free insurance, AND a 6 figure income to govern people who average $25000 a year?THere are way too many politicians who are in it for the money and the power, not for the good of their constituants. The only way to ge a concern accross to these people is to provide a point of view with enough backing to jeaopardize that position. A republican rep who received 500000 votes will respond immediately to a petition with 10000 republican signatures, as this could easily make the difference in the next election. A solid petition from an area with a traditionally strong voter turn out will get immediate results. Even more important is the direction of the protest. It does no, or very little good to submit letters or petitions to a federal representitive on a local ordinance.
The politicians, and money people use the fact we are a small minority to accomplish things like this. The only way to fight that is to find an issue that is important to the non boating public. For instance, what is the reasoning behind closing this anchorage? Is it to provide a more valuable environment for a planned development? If so, approaching locals from the point of view of expansion, additional traffic, noise, and construction, as well as the potential for decreased home values as a result of tract housing in their area would be an easy sell to gain support against closing an anchorage. Sure it is a convoluted path, but the reasons put forth to justify something like this are equally as convoluted.

Bob Norson 09-06-2006 17:51

"It's a vicious circle that will never stop as long as people expect the government to do the things they once used to do for themselves,"

Greetings PBzeer, defjef and all... I think the above quote reveals the fundamental difference between your statements and to add my two cents... I think the governments now supply less services for the general population than they once did. I also believe that the people that succeed in politics have a natural and reciprocated, dislike for cruising folk so they burden the boating community with cost and excessive or downright non-sensical regulation. In any case though, I think it's important to unite ourselves along our common interests for what effect we can make.

Austrailia and the US seem to be going the same way. The US ahead but OZ playing catch-up. Problem is in the US (westcoast) there are so few anchoring opportunities to start with. East coast OZ is blessed with a great number of good anchorages so when one is "taken" it doesn't illicit great anger from the community, just a shrug and on to the next one but the next ones are running out.... If someone out there can come up with a workable strategy a publication can promote to make for a positive outcome....I am all ears! I should say another strategy... the scca idea is already on my mind. I'll be in touch with them today.

Cheers

Bob

Kai Nui 09-06-2006 17:57

Bob, you make an interesting point. If the government cares about cruisers enough to try to legislate us out of existance, maybe we have more power than I thought?


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