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-   -   Experts, Have Fun at My Expense (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f47/experts-have-fun-at-my-expense-32694.html)

hpeer 18-01-2010 18:26

Well, if you are "sailing" her do you need fuel docks?

And besides, I have already demonstrated my ability to wreck havoc, This boat will just give me an excuse.

tomperanteau 18-01-2010 18:49

I manage a law office, so....

Buy the one you want. Then if the counseling doesn't work out, you stand a better chance of buying her out if you divorce.

Curmudgeon 18-01-2010 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by hpeer (Post 390357)
Well, if you are "sailing" her do you need fuel docks?

Well, at 44,000 lbs, you will be sailing awfully slowly in light air. It will be tempting to fire up the iron Jenny.

hpeer 18-01-2010 19:22

Yeah, I gotta learn some patience.
Seriously, I don't know how much faith to put in displacement numbers for custom boats. I see numbers all over the place, either stupid low or sky high, for boats that look to be close to equal. I think there is a lot of BS going on with that.

Don't lifts generally have a gauge?

Boracay 18-01-2010 22:47

Demolishing fuel docks...
 
Which explains why the only time I get really useful hints on how to handle Boracay (30,000lb steel) is when I go to buy fuel...

hpeer 23-02-2010 18:44

A bit of an update. At one point someone asked that I explain our choice and I have not wanted to say too much while negotiations have been on-going. But now we have a signed acceptance letter, passed survey, the check is in the proverbial mail. I feel I can share more of my thoughts.

All good natured joking about manipulating my wife aside, after fairly well knocking ourselves out looking, we came to the conclusion that there was no suitable aluminum boats in our price range. That left us with steel boats because we wish the ability to sail in ice and, my megar experience says that if there are bergs, then there is undetectable ice big enough to hurt. And besides we like the solidness of metal vs FRP.

So we went back to our original list. The Colvin ketch was a nice boat but more of a floating house than we wanted. We wanted a simpler boat. The wife feels claustrophobic on my 33'er so we wanted something a bit bigger. We went over the yachtworld list time and again and kept coming back to the Pape. There were several factors to this.

The first consideration was her comfort and my anticipation of her motion at sea. My wife, whose boat this is, tends to seasickness. She has made major gains over the years in dealing with it but it is still a factor. I believe that this boat with have a relatively more comfortable motion underway. Not only is the boat heavy but it sits relatively low, the salon is about in the center of motion and that should make a quiet spot to be. It is likely that the Wife will enjoy a great many more days on the water if she is more comfortable and that is paramount.

Next this particular interior layout is a very good compromise. On the one hand it is quite open to the eye, important to fight the claustrophobia. But it is also quite controlling in the sense that there are many handholds and many places to brace yourself with your legs and hands. No dance floor here, lots of alleys below the waist.

Third was our perception of quality in the boats fundamental construction and design. Having spent so much time chasing dreams looking at other boats that were poorly designed, poorly executed or poorly maintained we had had enough. We needed closure. We wanted something solid, something were we felt secure in our decision. In that regard this boat spoke to us very strongly. In many ways she is similar to our 33 footer being a steel cutter rig. So I have some better sense of how she will behave and how to sail her. The hull had a recent ultrasound and was found to be in good shape. My personal inspections of the hull found some rust, but no more than is to be expected and none that was critical.

Now being at that blissfully ignorant and brief period between buying and taking possession I find myself pleased. I have spent some time on the boat and am pretty well conveinced that she is the real deal and is a solid purchase, if not a sprightly performer.

I think a lot of the criticism/skepticism of the boat was due to the listed displacement of 44,000 pounds. I found the original documents showing her as "17 tons." Even at long tons that is "only" 38,000 pounds, quite possibly dry. So the 44,000 pounds is likely a good honest cruising displacement. I took off some measurements and have approximated her sail area at 972 ft sq (without the staysail) which gives her a pretty reasonable SAD for a boat of her class. She will never be a filly but a good solid work horse, which meets our desires pretty well. Someone said "That's a point and go boat." I think that pretty well nailed it and we have often come back to that observation.

In looking over the inventory and finding out a bit more history it seems the boat was given a pretty good overhaul in 2006/2007. The equipment was pretty much as stated, was properly sized and of quality. The hull construction is a bit different from other steel boats I have seen in that there are no "stringers" or "longitudinals" per se. Rather the each chine is welded top and bottom to an inside pipe running the entire length of the chine. This means that each joint has 4 full length welds (outside/inside/top of pipe/bottom of pipe) instead of two. The welds are made such that water can not rest on them thus eliminating the most likely point of rusting. It probably added a good 50% to the welding time but it makes a quality job. Also the boat was insulated throughout, which was important to us.

There is quite a bit of cosmetic work to do and many/most of the systems need attention, but they are newer and the problems they have are generally within my grasp. In places the sole is a mess. The heads and plumbing need attention and work. Much interior wood work is in some state of aborted repair. Upholstery needs to be replaced. And I am sure there is much else that I have not figured out yet.

We will take possession of the boat in about two weeks, then the fun begins. First I will need to address all of the active rust. The rudder is tight but workable. That is a good bit of worry. I want to put mast climbers on. These are immediate "to do's."

Then we will take care of the most annoying issues ASAP and try to get out on the water AMAP (As Much As Possible.) We have several upgrades that we need to work out but we want some time on the boat to sort our our intentions. We want to use this summer so that we can effect the upgrades over next winter. These upgrades will include:
1 - heat... forced air and/or pot burner - maybe a Wallas stove?
2 - hard dodger/full enclosure or some combination - relocate winches
3 - arch for wind gen/solar/radar/antennas/dingy
4 - radar/AIS/weather fax solution

I think that will keep us going for a bit.

ConradG 23-02-2010 20:29

Hey, congrats on doing it! Hope she turns out to be all you wanted. Getting that far must be a good feeling and now the fun can begin!

Stillraining 24-02-2010 13:52

Congratulations...Post some pictures of your prize when the dust settles.

S&S 24-02-2010 14:13

:thumb:

hpeer 28-02-2010 10:42

6 Attachment(s)
Closing is this week. Then I gotta learn how to dock this beast.

ConradG 28-02-2010 10:47

Looks like you have all sorts of room in there! It may be a "beast", but it sure is a pretty one!
(Just come in straight. The other boats will part like the red sea!) :)


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