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-   -   Listed Price on New Boats vs Sold Price (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f128/listed-price-on-new-boats-vs-sold-price-23516.html)

joshw5144 09-02-2009 19:23

Listed Price on New Boats vs Sold Price
 
I remember a thread regarding listed price vs sale price, but I can't find it. Does anyone know where I can find the average sale price on new boats in Canada vs. their listed price? What would be a reasonable offer in today's economy?

Chattcatdaddy 09-02-2009 20:54

I would feel comfortable offering around 25% less the listed price. I think that goes for any item for sale not just sailboats. Buyers market right now and a lot of owners are willing to accept an offer less than asking price. Especially if they are paying marina fees every month. So you figure they lose a few hundred bucks every month the boat is not sold.

Pblais 10-02-2009 03:36

Any US broker has access to YachtWorld Listings. They are not public. I really think it would be impossible to compute the number you are looking for. I got all the listings for the last boat when I was a seller. It helps. The differences are as variable as the asking prices but were pretty close. Most prices are not 25% different. When the differences are that big there usually is a clear reason.

The question of asking vs listing price gets asked about 5 times a year. There really is no magic percentage. The best way is find a group of boats and figure what the price would be for the other boat. That would be your maximum price. Prices fluctuate all the time even in the best economic times. You are pricing one boat for you not all the boats every where. Personally, I would buy an above average boat. Let the other guy buy the below average boat.

sailorboy1 10-02-2009 04:20

We probably all think that the current market means lower prices. But the other day I commented to my buyers broker about one of his boats that was priced higher that it's sisters. He said the owner increased the price recently because his 401k had taken a hit so he was looking to recoup it on the boat (isn't going to be though me). In anything buyers decide what something is worth and sellers either go along with it or lose out on the sale.

Hud3 10-02-2009 04:44

The website that the brokers use is soldboats.com. As Paul said, it's connected with Yachtworld. It takes a password to get into it.

When I listed my boat this past November, my broker gave me a printout of list vs. sold prices for 16 recent Island Packet sales in the U.S. The actual selling prices averaged 4.4% below the listing prices. The largest discount was 10%, and one boat actually sold for slightly more than list.

I followed his advice, and we listed my boat quite a bit lower than I would have in more normal times, based on recent sales of IP 380s. With a sizable discount already reflected in the list price, I'm hoping the actual selling price won't be a huge discount from list.

Pblais 10-02-2009 05:40

Quote:

I followed his advice, and we listed my boat quite a bit lower than I would have in more normal times, based on recent sales of IP 380s. With a sizable discount already reflected in the list price, I'm hoping the actual selling price won't be a huge discount from list.
Hud, I did the exact same thing when we sold our last boat. When you can see all the competition and can compare prior sales it's pretty easy to find the right price for a listing. There is always the issue of the right buyer coming along. It often takes time. We got and had the contact that closed 18 hours after listing. The offer followed several days later. It really was as much luck as anything else.

There are a LOT of folks getting ready to retire and they have made their plans for many years. They get to the point where they are ready to buy a boat and they really don't care about the economy. They want to retire. They are not foolish or reckless with their money but they have made the decision to buy a boat at that time.

waverider 10-02-2009 06:42

I would go in at 25% to 30 % off, If you dont ask you wont get. You never know what a person will sell for, but you dont want to insult them either. Now if your talking about very expensive boats that may differ. But if you are in and around the $ 20 000.00 price range this is a resonible offer.

Pblais 10-02-2009 07:57

Quote:

I would go in at 25% to 30 % off, If you don't ask you wont get. You never know what a person will sell for, but you dont want to insult them either.
You need to start a conversation. 30% is not a conversation. If the boat really is only worth 70% of asking then it probably is over priced and won't be easy to negotiate. You then know the seller is an idiot. This where the some boats are not for sale rule applies.

I would look at a couple sister-ships. Out of the bunch I would work a deal for the best one knowing the others will require more money after the deal. You normally would not court the ugly step sister. The cheapest boat usually costs even more money than you think since the best one will still have problems.

If you negotiate from a strong position through knowing the market at it's current time you can't make a bad deal. Make an offer based on the condition you see against the the other boats you already have seen. Should the survey find unexpected things then you can negotiate based on real information. You never have to work with no information. if you can't look at 5 boats and decide which one you think is the best then you'll need outside help.

If you cast a wide enough net in the pool of boats that you can actually look at then you know the market for the boats you think you want. You can work for the best boat or the cheapest boat. The cheapest boats are usually more over priced than the really good ones.

I like to use the "free boat" as an example. If you can understand that the free boat is worth less than it will cost to fix then you can see the extreme end of the low ball scale. if the only boat you can afford is the worst boat in a bunch then your vision needs to readjust until the boats in your pool are affordable. You don't make a pool of boats that you can not or won't be able to buy. The idea is you negotiate based on the better alternative. If a better alternative can be had for less than the asking price of the boat you want than make the price equal. The seller can take it or leave it because you can take the other boat. This strategy always gets you the best boat.

Just as it costs a seller to hang in there it costs you money to complete the due diligence of checking out boats. You don't buy boats like you play Texas Hold 'Em.

camaraderie 10-02-2009 07:59

It all depends on what stage the seller is at. I reduced the asking price of my boat three separate times...then once again when I had an offer. 22% off original asking price...8% off when compared to last asking price. Would have accepted a 15% off offer on day 1.
Asking prices on yachtworld on my boa had nearly a 100k spread for similar aged boats. I don't think there is any rule you can use and EXPECT it to work. It is boat by boat, owner by owner.

David_Old_Jersey 10-02-2009 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by camaraderie (Post 253351)
It is boat by boat, owner by owner.

and buyer by buyer.

FWIW although I have only sold / been involved with the sale of a couple of boats I have always priced them at a price that would be attractive for me to consider, even if not actually buy.

My thinking is that 3 / 6 or more :eek: months of upkeep (or unexpected repairs? :() in 's and time is worth avoiding rather than trying to squeeze the last possible dollar from the sale itself.....not to say that a fairly quick sale will always be so attractive to me in the future.

Amgine 10-02-2009 11:48

I've had only a bit more buying experience, and I've had nothing but negative experiences with professionals involved in the process. One boat I hired a broker to act as my buying agent, but refused to give me advice on what to offer. Another the broker's surveyor agreed the asking price was a fair market price despite it being 10% higher than all asking prices on yachtworld for the model.

The only buyer's remorse I've had is for trusting the advice of professionals. Even when I've paid cash for it, so it should ostensibly be skewed in my favour.

roverhi 10-02-2009 11:51

You are talking new boats, right. If so, there isn't a whole lot of manuevering room for the broker. Don't know what mark up is on new boats but doubt that it would be more than 20% and probably not that. A dealer isn't going to sell the boat at a loss unless they are facing imminent insolvency. Actually, their bank probably wouldn't allow them to do that as it's really the bank who has paid to floor the boat.

If I was buying a new boat, I'd definitely make offers. You may get a lot more savings if you negotiate to use the dealers discounts at the local chandlery, etc. for the equipment that you'll need. You'll probably add more than 20% of the purchase price of the boat in goodies. Getting all that equipment at professional discount will make you smile.

Aloha
Peter O.

Tropic Cat 10-02-2009 11:59

I thin the original link you asked for is here

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...kup-19579.html

But there were more than one thread on this subject, and another is here:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...rice-5054.html

joshw5144 10-02-2009 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by roverhi (Post 253427)
You are talking new boats, right. If so, there isn't a whole lot of manuevering room for the broker. Don't know what mark up is on new boats but doubt that it would be more than 20% and probably not that. A dealer isn't going to sell the boat at a loss unless they are facing imminent insolvency. Actually, their bank probably wouldn't allow them to do that as it's really the bank who has paid to floor the boat.

If I was buying a new boat, I'd definitely make offers. You may get a lot more savings if you negotiate to use the dealers discounts at the local chandlery, etc. for the equipment that you'll need. You'll probably add more than 20% of the purchase price of the boat in goodies. Getting all that equipment at professional discount will make you smile.

Aloha
Peter O.

Yes I am talking new. From a dealer. I realize that equipment might be a better negotiating tool, but I feel paying sticker price is kind of foolish. That being said I don't want to do myself a disservice by asking something unreasonable. Thanks for all the input.

Pblais 10-02-2009 12:41

Quote:

The only buyer's remorse I've had is for trusting the advice of professionals. Even when I've paid cash for it, so it should ostensibly be skewed in my favor.
No one really cares if you are paying cash or getting a loan. It's a myth paying cash gets you anything. It's why there is credit. I find the money works just the same. It may help with speeding up the closing process but it won't get you much on a price. I think the reason that advice on purchase price is so poor is that - "they ain't you".

First, there are those that would whine about any price and of course the broker was an idiot no matter what. Any time your expectations don't become exceeded they must have been out to screw you. Second, if you hire an agent to act in your behalf for anything you must give them all the instructions they require to complete the job.

The fact that a broker would not suggest a price is the same reason you don't ask the selling broker. You can't hire a broker to be paid as low as possible so you'll be happy. It's called prostitution. You don't pay a bank to keep your money why pay a broker to save it? You could hire them to present an offer you personally prepared. People that are too busy to show up usually do this. It's always possible any offer will fall through - it's why they have contracts. If that should happen then the broker was at fault as well.

Quote:

If so, there isn't a whole lot of maneuvering room for the broker.
For new boats you generally get room on commissioning. The extra goodies that the dealer adds are his deal to screw up or make right. The basic boat price to him is fixed. If you want a lot of add ons this is where you can make a deal. It is easier to negotiate with someone when it is their money. More custom boat builders skip the middle man a lot so they don't have screwed customers and they keep the profits.


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