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chowdan 21-02-2019 15:27

Review electrical design
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hey all,

I am in the process of re-designing my electrical system as it doesn't make full sense and some wires need replacing.

I figured I should create a diagram that breaks all the systems down and explains how it all should be wired.

Would love to get some feedback on my current design and if anyone has any tips or recommendations, would love to hear it!

Do note - this is strictly a DC positive wiring diagram. I haven't touched the AC design(yet) or negative wiring yet.

Reefmagnet 21-02-2019 15:43

Re: Review electrical design
 
Your "24 hr" connection should be before the house bank switch. Consider a self resetting breaker for the bilge pumps. And don't waste those 24 hr "spares" - 5VDC USB charger outlets in this modern age are very handy to have powered up even when the boat's main switch is off.

Tillsbury 21-02-2019 15:54

Re: Review electrical design
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet (Post 2831179)
Your "24 hr" connection should be before the house bank switch. Consider a self resetting breaker for the bilge pumps. And don't waste those 24 hr "spares" - 5VDC USB charger outlets in this modern age are very handy to have powered up even when the boat's main switch is off.

+1 on that. I have two "24hr" circuits, one for safety (bilge pumps / alarms) and one for convenience (router, monitors, USB ports, engine room lights etc). Although they have their own hidden switches, they are on at all times.

chowdan 21-02-2019 17:09

Re: Review electrical design
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet (Post 2831179)
Your "24 hr" connection should be before the house bank switch. Consider a self resetting breaker for the bilge pumps. And don't waste those 24 hr "spares" - 5VDC USB charger outlets in this modern age are very handy to have powered up even when the boat's main switch is off.

Good catch on the 24hr link being after the house switch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tillsbury (Post 2831190)
+1 on that. I have two "24hr" circuits, one for safety (bilge pumps / alarms) and one for convenience (router, monitors, USB ports, engine room lights etc). Although they have their own hidden switches, they are on at all times.

Ahhh great idea!!! I will have to review my wifi router power supply to see what voltage it runs on as that is something I have always on(when dock side).

I also love the idea of USB ports. That would make life quite nice being able to plug directly in without having something inbetween.

Since I have dual alternators, is there a way to have them wired so the system automatically determines where to pump power?

cj88 21-02-2019 17:16

Re: Review electrical design
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chowdan (Post 2831231)
I also love the idea of USB ports. That would make life quite nice being able to plug directly in without having something inbetween.

My preference is for 12v cigarette lighter ports with USB adapter plugs. I can change/upgrade the adapters to the latest plug type with ease as required without issue. Tech never stands still. USB, micro USB, etc.

chowdan 21-02-2019 17:29

Re: Review electrical design
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cj88 (Post 2831240)
My preference is for 12v cigarette lighter ports with USB adapter plugs. I can change/upgrade the adapters to the latest plug type with ease as required without issue. Tech never stands still. USB, micro USB, etc.

Yup, very true. Good idea on that!




Another question regarding inverter/chargers - would it be wise to wire the charger section directly to the battery bank, or to a bus bar that connects to both house and starter bank?

Stu Jackson 22-02-2019 11:21

Re: Review electrical design
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chowdan (Post 2831250)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Another question regarding inverter/chargers - would it be wise to wire the charger section directly to the battery bank, or to a bus bar that connects to both house and starter bank?


That's not how combined I/Cs work. You don't wire the "charger section" compared to the inverter "section." Those "sections" simply do not exist. Think of it this way: you have two wires coming from the inverter to the batteries. When charging the I/C sends power TO the bank. When inverting, the wires TAKE power FROM the bank. Same wires, different directions, but at different times and NEVER at the same time.


The I/C should be wired to the house bank only. For charging the start bank, use one of any of the available VSRs (voltage sensitive relays), be they combiners, oil pressure switches, Blue Sea ACRs and the like. House bank only because if you use the inverter while tied to the start bank you'd drain it almost immediately if there was any AC load on it.


While your two alternator issue complicates matters, folks with dual engines in their catamarans face this issue all the time.


You may be interested in these links:
OEM 1-2-B Switch Wiring History http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4....html#msg30101

Basic Battery Wiring Diagrams This is a very good basic primer for boat system wiring: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6604.0.html

This is another very good basic primer for boat system wiring: The 1-2-B Switch by Maine Sail (brings together a lot of what this subject is all about)
http://forums.catalina.sailboatowner...d.php?t=137615

This is a newer primer for boat system wiring design with a thorough diagram: Building a Good Foundation (October 2016)
http://forums.sailboatowners.com/in...dc-electrical-foundation.181929/#post-1332240

The Short Version of the 1-2-B Switch Stuff: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5....html#msg38552 This is a link to the Electrical Systems 101 Topic, reply #2

What are ACRs, Combiners & Echo Chargers? (by Maine Sail) [scroll to the top]
http://forums.catalina.sailboatowner...d.php?p=742417 and http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,9....html#msg70131

They ALL come from this:

Electrical Systems 101 http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5977.0.html

DeepFrz 22-02-2019 11:28

Re: Review electrical design
 
You might like to check out this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdur_Ln-9cE

Stu Jackson 22-02-2019 14:22

Re: Review electrical design
 
Wow, that was some presentation.


I lost all faith in his BS at minute 43. You just do NOT run your AO to the reserve/start bank first when using a combiner.

smac999 22-02-2019 20:02

Re: Review electrical design
 
The inverter charger needs its own switch and fuse to the house battery. It can not be run through the house switch.


The comments above about adding all the extra Crap to 24hr circuits is not allowed. It's only for bilge pumps / co2 / saftey things. The list allowed is in abyc.

House switches are turned off for boat fires, electrical service, and emergencys. And must turn everything that should be turned off.

As for the alts. I would leave as Is. let them charge each bank. is the big alt external reg?

If you ever really wanted both alts charging the house bank,you can combine the batteries at switch. .

Spot 22-02-2019 21:01

Re: Review electrical design
 
1 Attachment(s)
The house battery bank is not wired for 12v.
It would need all 4 + together and all 4 - together to make 12v...or am I missing something?

Some of the connections are + to - making 2 chains @24v that are feeding nothing on the +24v side.

Uncle Bob 22-02-2019 22:29

Re: Review electrical design
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson (Post 2831942)
Wow, that was some presentation.


I lost all faith in his BS at minute 43. You just do NOT run your AO to the reserve/start bank first when using a combiner.

You may not however many do in many parts of the world, following the principle that the most important battery on board is the one that is needed when the house fails, charge it first and then the house.

rom 22-02-2019 23:22

Re: Review electrical design
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by smac999 (Post 2832152)
The inverter charger needs its own switch and fuse to the house battery. It can not be run through the house switch.

Really ?

smac999 22-02-2019 23:23

Re: Review electrical design
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson (Post 2831942)
Wow, that was some presentation.


I lost all faith in his BS at minute 43. You just do NOT run your AO to the reserve/start bank first when using a combiner.

Many boats are still runing stock ~50a alts. I wiukdn't bother rewiring those. I leave them to start post and to start battery. As per factory.

Only if alts are being upgraded do I spend the extra many hours rewiring an alt to a house bank.

You turn a $200 dollar job installing an acr to a $600 job installing acr and running new alt wire. With no benifit gain in a small alt.

There are pros a cons to both. Depending on alt size and bank sizes.

I did't watch the whole video. Too long. Only the part that was pointed out.

smac999 22-02-2019 23:29

Re: Review electrical design
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rom (Post 2832195)
Really ?

Yes. Turn the house switch off in his diagram and tell me what happens. (while charging)


Same reason the battery charger is wired to the battery. And not to the house switch.

2 problems happen.


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