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-   -   How big is too big for a first boat novice sailor? And my little dreams (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f47/how-big-is-too-big-for-a-first-boat-novice-sailor-and-my-little-dreams-189151.html)

justshane 11-08-2017 17:57

How big is too big for a first boat novice sailor? And my little dreams
 
And by novice I mean I've been on a boat once or twice and I still giggle at poop deck.
Now that my extensive resume is out of the way here's what I'm looking at.
I'm in the market for a live aboard boat that I can circumnavigate around the world. I plan on living in it full time.
I'm in an expensive area right now and it's either I spend 30k on rent for the next 9 months or I invest into motor sail and live on that while I'm here and learn to sail in the mean time. I know, it's a big task going from a know nothing to trying to sail across the globe but I'm up for the challenge. I plan on leaving when the time is right.

So the size question, I'm 6'2 and I like a little space, especially if I'll be living on board with a S/O. I'm looking at a nice Hudson Force 50, it has the space and the style. From what I understand it has had extensive work done to it, in the 400k range, so it obviously wasn't always a gem, I've followed some of the work done on their blog. I've read a lot of the love/hate regarding the teaks and leaks, I would get a survey done before hand obviously but I'm wondering if this is TOO big in the experts opinions for a first time sailor? I'm looking at this like anything else, I don't like to buy on a budget just to upgrade later. I'd like to grow with this. It's 35 years old but I see much older boats out there still kicking it with the kids.
The boat is pretty much everything I want at a glance, just needs a water maker, some solar and a little interior refurbishing to make it perfect.
As for the large space, I have equipment that I need to move with me, mountain bikes, boards, scuba gear and about 2 pairs of pants and some flip flops, as well as a S.O and a son that I would love to take on trips in the future.

I've never sailed but I will take a few courses and spend the next 8 or 9 months working on my knowledge/skill as well as with friends who are avid sailors to help me learn what I need to.

WharramMan 11-08-2017 18:05

Re: How big is too big for a first boat novice sailor? And my little dreams
 
For being a novice, boat size is not really going to be your issue. Your issue is wanting a condo on the water. There was a bunch of "I need" in your post. Your mind and lack of practical experience is what will stop you.

A Hudson Force 50 is a LOT of maintenance. Add all of those other "I need" gadgets you probably know little about and your maintenance schedule will likely begin to exceed your personal commitment.

Keep it simple and build from there.

I'm 6'3" and went cruising on a boat with 4'8" head room with my wife and two kids. We had a blast. Perspective...

justshane 11-08-2017 18:25

Re: How big is too big for a first boat novice sailor? And my little dreams
 
I'm sure a cruise would be a blast but I'm talking living, yeah I'm high maintenance I guess, I like some comforts. I do like standing room, I've had back surgery in the past and being cramped all the time wouldn't be ideal for me physically, no problem with the physical labor aspect, just positional.
My listed additional needs were for solar panels and a water maker, which I don't think is an impractical list.
Crazy part is, I looked at a condo today and I'm pretty sure the Hudson had more living space than that did at 3k mo. It was nice though.
I have heard about the maintenance being higher than some other boats. I'm still reading through everything so I do appreciate the input as it gives me something to consider.

Steadman Uhlich 11-08-2017 18:35

Re: How big is too big for a first boat novice sailor? And my little dreams
 
Howdy JUSTSHANE. Welcome aboard CF!

Short answer: At one time, 25 years ago, I thought the Hudson Force 50 would be an ideal liveaboard boat for cruising the world. I still like the styling. Since then, I have learned a lot more about boats, sailed on more, learned about the costs to own and maintain, and experienced much more related to boats and sailing. Today, I would not choose an old Force 50 as a "first boat" nor as a "boat to circumnavigate" because there are other boats out there that would be more responsive, easier to maneuver, less maintenance, faster, less expensive to buy (and maintain), and easier on the crew/owner.

Finding a boat that is suitable for liveaboard (usually in a marina) or cruising the world (something different from marina living) is a matter of choice. The best choice you can make will likely only come after you have gained some experience sailing, and that is best done on a variety of boats so you can see what you feel comfortable handling.

I will send you a few links that may help you as you look at boats.

I hope that helps.

JPA Cate 11-08-2017 18:36

Re: How big is too big for a first boat novice sailor? And my little dreams
 
Learning to sail is easy and quick. Learning to sail well and developing good seamanship skills takes much longer. It is experience of the moods of the sea that will teach you the most.

The sailing part is the fun part. However, it takes regular maintenance to keep boats happy. Deferred maintenance on land won't sink you.

Imho, a smaller, easier to maintain vessel would increase your chances of success.

As it sits, I think your plan is inadequate. It doesn't allow for all the normal things that can go wrong. It isn't that you can't do it, but that the doing of it, given your point of view, will be unnecessarily hard.

In case you might not know, also, the larger the boat, the more everything costs, from insurance, through berthing fees (when it needs to be in a berth) to parts. The Force 50 will generate huge forces, the rigging must be larger, the blocks, the winches, the engine. Did you know about the black iron tanks? Have they been replaced, and dthe joinery repaired? There are a host of factors. All of that is why so many of the experienced boaties and cruisers suggest starting with a smaller day sailer, play with it, learn to sail, discover how seasickness affects you or your son, or your wife. See how you do with the maintenance schedule. You're talking circumnavigation, and you've never been at sea in a gale. You're minimizing the environment into which you wish to insert yourself.

Ann

sailorboy1 11-08-2017 18:46

Re: How big is too big for a first boat novice sailor? And my little dreams
 
Sailing is easy to learn and do. Only time helps with the rough stuff. I think that the idea sailboat size for a couple is 46-48 feet

WharramMan 11-08-2017 18:48

Re: How big is too big for a first boat novice sailor? And my little dreams
 
I lived on the boat AND cruised it. Same with a Cal 30 years before with only 5' 10" headroom. And I also suffer from a permanent spinal injury, so I do understand positional comfort.

Regardless, boats are holes in the water in which people throw money. A 400k refit on a boat should be an astounding eye opener. It cost that much because boats like that require lots of expensive normal maintenance, or all-at-once refits followed by lots of expensive normal maintenance.

If you are new to boating I would suggest finding a boat that requires lower maintenance overall: Fiberglass hull, Fiberglass decks, aluminum mast, fiberglass interior, etc., or maybe you can get lucky and find a quality cor-ten steel boat to your liking.

justshane 11-08-2017 18:51

Re: How big is too big for a first boat novice sailor? And my little dreams
 
Thanks everyone for the input and the links, I'll check those out.
The iron tanks have been replaced with plastic and I believe the joinery has been redone but I can't see that myself. You've all given me things to heavily consider. My second choice right now is a Hans Christian 38T running around the same 140 price range. I'm still learning so I'm going by things I've read, which are conflicting at best and the history I can find on the boats.
Here's the hudson for shits and giggles.
https://www.force50ketch.com

I understand the aspect of learning on a smaller sail, which I plan on doing with my buddys little 22 but I do want something sea worthy that I can begin investing and living in sooner than later rather than wasting money on a rental property. My term in my current place is up in 28 days. My big motivator right now is not paying 3k a month into someones mortgage when I can pay it into a boat that I can learn and become comfortable with.
I should clarify that I don't plan on circumnavigating in one shot, that would be crazy. I would probably go on a long slow path to Australia hitting all the small islands on the way. I think around the world would take me a few years at best.

boatpoker 11-08-2017 18:56

Re: How big is too big for a first boat novice sailor? And my little dreams
 
Arounf 15yrs ago I surveyed a 47' Catalina for a fella that had never set foot on a boat before. He bought the boat and two weeks to provision it. The first time he left the dock from Pickering, Ontario he single handed to Trinidad. I spent the next ten months watching the news to hear about his disappearance ..... About 10 months after he left Pickering I got an email from Trinidad .... Hey Wallace, having a great time c'mon down !
Sharon and I had lunch with John and his lovely new Venezuelan wife a few days ago ..... if you can live with the consequences ... Go for it !

justshane 11-08-2017 18:58

Re: How big is too big for a first boat novice sailor? And my little dreams
 
Thanks, I'll definitely look into that stuff. I'm not broke by any means but also not rich so even with my steady income I would rather not dump it all into one thing every month.

So since the hudson/formosa and those are falling off the block, what would you guys suggest for the lower maintenance. My budget ideally is under 150k, trying not to fall into someone elses project, did that enough with campers and much like boats I'm sure, whatever you expect the refurb to be, triple it, then triple it again.

justshane 11-08-2017 19:02

Re: How big is too big for a first boat novice sailor? And my little dreams
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatpoker (Post 2454578)
Arounf 15yrs ago I surveyed a 47' Catalina for a fella that had never set foot on a boat before. He bought the boat and two weeks to provision it. The first time he left the dock from Pickering, Ontario he single handed to Trinidad. I spent the next ten months watching the news to hear about his disappearance ..... About 10 months after he left Pickering I got an email from Trinidad .... Hey Wallace, having a great time c'mon down !
Sharon and I had lunch with John and his lovely new Venezuelan wife a few days ago ..... if you can live with the consequences ... Go for it !

Holy ****, no thanks. I may be slightly impulsive but I'm also obsessive. I have to know as much as humanly possible about what I'm doing before I do it and planning is key, that's the military in me coming out. That is impressive as hell though, kudos to that guy!

JPA Cate 11-08-2017 19:52

Re: How big is too big for a first boat novice sailor? And my little dreams
 
Do you know if there are any liveaboard slips in your area?

Remember to find some kind of slip for it, before you buy the boat.

Avoid much external teak, basically it's every 6 months and varnish it again. For a family of 3, start looking around 36 ft, and buy the smallest boat you and your good lady think you could live with. You won't regret it.

A.

justshane 11-08-2017 20:08

Re: How big is too big for a first boat novice sailor? And my little dreams
 
Yes there are tons of Live aboards here, the slip waitlist is longer than I will be here so I'll likely work a little grey area drug deal or take it out by the airport and anchor it for $100mo then dingy in. That's the plan anyways. I'm sure I could rent someones vacant slip, I've seen a few here. Just requires some shady business with leasing. Slip fees here are about 10$ per ft

Wckoek 11-08-2017 20:39

Re: How big is too big for a first boat novice sailor? And my little dreams
 
A lot of things can be learn along if you plan to liveaboard, yes it's a lot of work maintaining a large boat, but not so much if you live in it, you do everything little by little.

justshane 11-08-2017 21:48

Re: How big is too big for a first boat novice sailor? And my little dreams
 
I'm just going to post a few items to help get an idea where to narrow my search down to.

1978 CSY Center Cockpit Cutter Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com (read good things about this one)

1983 Pearson 424 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com (this one has been on the market a while, seems to have a cult like following)

1974 Columbia 43 MKIII Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com (may not even be available, seems to have been stripped of the teak decking)


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