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-   -   Photo: Why I Dislike Mooring Fields (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f118/photo-why-i-dislike-mooring-fields-17606.html)

ssullivan 25-07-2008 05:02

Photo: Why I Dislike Mooring Fields
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here is a photo showing why I dislike mooring fields so much.

This was once a protected anchorage. Now, there is an 80 year wait to get a mooring here - no joke - that's what the estimated time is to get a mooring in this harbor, according to the municipality that governs them.

These people have made it onto the list through political contributions, bribes, luck of having a grandfather that was into sailing, etc...

So all these fortunate people have moorings, BUT... look closely at the picture! How many of them are actually USING the mooring they keep?

They choked up a perfectly good anchorage full of moorings and most are empty!

This is high sailing season here. All the boats are launched and in the water, yet look at this mooring field.

This is also a photo taken on a week day, at 6AM. Nobody is "out sailing for the day." These moorings have been empty for the whole season.

I count 15 empty moorings and 12 boats!! These 12 boats could have easily been moored over in a corner and left some more room available to anchor in. What a waste.

Now why can't I just take one of these moorings if they aren't even being used, and they take up a perfectly good anchorage?

Harbormasters should remove moorings that aren't used for the season and allow people to anchor.

Pblais 25-07-2008 05:20

This seems to be the second mooring thread you've started. We really don't want to go back to that again.

You appear a little bit stressed. Welcome to the "should have had a grandfather that sailed" club. Lot's of room so we will all move over.

You might want to look at this:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...off-17410.html

Oil spills are a much lighter subject.

ssullivan 25-07-2008 05:21

Na... the other thread was an anchoring thread! ha ha :)

I'm not stressed or anything. I think it's a good idea to point out problems in society when you see them.

Keeps people thinking and questioning - I hope.

There is a lack of that these days.

And yes... we don't want to go back to the "anchoring ethics" thread. While this thread is similar, it isn't the same thing at all. It's about us (cruisers and liveaboards) losing anchoring spots to mooring fields - fields that are off limits to us and aren't even being used by the people who have them.

That is an injustice.

Pelagic 25-07-2008 05:26

Hi Sean,
I remember a few years ago when I chartered a sailboat in Denmark…. they had a really nice system at all the marinas where a RED card at a slip meant the owner was coming back that day and you couldn’t tie up.

A Green card meant that the owner was away and you could tie up, then see the dockmaster who would give you the date the owner would return, sometimes shifting you to another slip to harmonize the dates.

Could that system not be implemented with established mooring fields?

bobnlesley 25-07-2008 05:28

...Harbormasters should remove moorings that aren't used for the season and allow people to anchor...

But where's the profit in that?

We're now in Greece which is OK, but I remember NE Spain in particular had moorings filling every available sheltered bay and cove. What made it even more frustrating was that a) they were all empty and b) they weren't heavy enough to use. It appeared that they were solely used on Saturday & Sunday afternoons, when the small local motorboats left their marina berths for a five mile passage, picnic stop on these buoys and return at dusk.

ssullivan 25-07-2008 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelagic (Post 186367)
Hi Sean,
I remember a few years ago when I chartered a sailboat in Denmark…. they had a really nice system at all the marinas where a RED card at a slip meant the owner was coming back that day and you couldn’t tie up.

A Green card meant that the owner was away and you could tie up, then see the dockmaster who would give you the date the owner would return, sometimes shifting you to another slip to harmonize the dates.

Could that system not be implemented with established mooring fields?

Seems like a fine system to me. :)

Any system that would make use of an anchorage that is being wasted on a bunch of floating balls would be welcome news...

waterworldly 25-07-2008 05:37

Perhaps the moorings are held by the owners of the homes on the cove, who have them for visiting yachts of friends. Where I grew up, it was not uncommon to keep one for visitors even if you didn't own a yacht that needed one, but didn't have enough dock space at your own house for the visitors. Remember how many people go up to New England in the summertime to visit. THis is reciprocated in the southern states in the Winter.

GordMay 25-07-2008 05:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssullivan (Post 186364)
... It's about us (cruisers and liveaboards) losing anchoring spots to mooring fields - fields that are off limits to us and aren't even being used by the people who have them.
That is an injustice.

Isn’t this the essential element of private property rights ; wherein my right to own and/or use something supersedes and vitiates your and everyone else’s right to own or use that thing.

Traditional principles of property rights include:
1. control of the use of the property
2. the right to any benefit from the property
3. a right to transfer or sell the property
4. a right to exclude others from the property.

See the 5TH and 14TH Amendments to your Constitution.

ssullivan 25-07-2008 05:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by GordMay (Post 186374)
Isn’t this the essential element of private property rights ; wherein my right to own and/or use something supersedes and vitiates your and everyone else’s right to own or use that thing.

Traditional principles of property rights include:
1. control of the use of the property
2. the right to any benefit from the property
3. a right to transfer or sell the property
4. a right to exclude others from the property.

See the 5TH and 14TH Amendments to your Constitution.

Yes, it is, Gord.

There is just one little twist. I cannot option to purchase any of these moorings. I would gladly do so, but they are on a "first come, first serve" basis - which created an 80 year wait for one.

I don't have the answers. I wish I did.

The post is here though... so maybe others can come up with something or at least know about this in advance if they try to cruise or live aboard. It is happening in a lot of places. It's all fine and dandy to talk about property rights and taxes, profits and land owners.

However, in the end... it means that many people will no longer be able to cruise and live aboard. If you have to pay for a dock, or move to another area where you rent a $35/night rental mooring, how will many of the current cruisers or the dreamers be able to afford to do what we all talk about on this board?

Granted, there are many on here who are well off, but there are probably just as many (if not more) who will have to watch the kitty while cruising, carefully spending money on repairs and food and whatnot.

I worry that cruising (as you knew it) will not be available to people in the future. Every new mooring field that goes into an anchorage brings us closer and closer to that point where cruising will cost $35/night, or approx $1000/mo more than it does now.

This will keep *many* of the people on this board from being able to do it.

I write because I care about the future of cruising. :)

jzk 25-07-2008 06:17

Westrec
 
Here in Chicago, we have Westrec managed marinas. If a boat is gone for a bit, the harbormaster will put a transient on your mooring.

scallywag 25-07-2008 06:21

Property Rights--The State of Florida owns all submerged land. I was told marinas are taxed on the land under their docks. The city of St. Augustine is talking about placing a mooring field north and south of the Bridge of Lions.
John

GordMay 25-07-2008 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssullivan (Post 186378)
Yes, it is, Gord.
There is just one little twist. I cannot option to purchase any of these moorings. I would gladly do so, but they are on a "first come, first serve" basis - which created an 80 year wait for one.

I can empathize with your anguish, as a similar thing happened to me.
I was only about 382 years too late to beat Peter Minuit to an excellent land deal ($26 for a nice little island). The greedy #%*&/x* didn’t even reserve a small parcel for my eventual use. ;)

The first-come owners may have (3) a right to transfer or sell the property.

jzk 25-07-2008 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssullivan (Post 186378)
I cannot option to purchase any of these moorings.....I worry that cruising (as you knew it) will not be available to people in the future. Every new mooring field that goes into an anchorage brings us closer and closer to that point where cruising will cost $35/night, or approx $1000/mo more than it does now.

A prudent cruiser will find that there are thousands of places left in this world to anchor. The more crowded cities get with boats means the more economical boating will be for the rest of us. One of the reasons you got such a great deal on your boat is the economy of scale.

Perhaps there is a way to "purchase" the right to use the mooring from one of those that aren't using it? Our marinas don't allow this as they use the vacant spots for transients, but it sounds as if yours doesn't. Here in Chicago one might buy a mooring without even having a boat just to get in line for a slip for next year. Perhaps those people plan on having a boat "next year" but don't want to wait 80 years again, so they keep their mooring vacant.

psteele235 25-07-2008 06:34

Here's a suggestion: Put a "Use My Mooring" thread up so when those who have moorings know they will be away they can post to CF members and privately arrange to allow another member to use that mooring.

ssullivan 25-07-2008 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by psteele235 (Post 186390)
Here's a suggestion: Put a "Use My Mooring" thread up so when those who have moorings know they will be away they can post to CF members and privately arrange to allow another member to use that mooring.

There we go! (the thread is working)

Patrick is thinking and this is another good idea. A little database of moorings in use or not in use would be very helpful to cruisers.


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