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JPA Cate 14-02-2016 20:30

Who "Owns" What?
Two situations, in the first, a CF member receives a PM (Private Message). Said member cuts and pastes parts of the post onto an ongoing thread. Original writer complains that he or she has been mistreated by the sharing of the material. So, who owns that intellectual property, the one who gave it, the one who received it, or both, to do with as they please?

Second one. Someone goes to a great deal of effort to take a picture of their boat to give the pic to their partner for a birthday present. Said pic is printed and placed on the bulkhead. Which one gets to use it for their avatar? The one who took it? The one who thought it was a gift? or????

Please add your reasons which underlie your opinion.



monte 14-02-2016 20:39

Re: Who "Owns" What?
Hi Ann. I believe the answer to #1 is that sharing of private messages publicly isn't allowed by the forum rules. I think it's written somewhere but don't quote me on that! Answer to #2 is you both get to use it, or you could go with King Solomon's approach and use half each..

oldragbaggers 14-02-2016 20:50

Re: Who "Owns" What?
Interesting question. In the case of the photograph, I'm going to pass on that one. I should hope that the two people could work it out between them.

In the case of the PM, it is my belief, whether it's forum rules or not, that you should not quote someone verbatim (as you certainly are when you cut and paste, whether it's from a PM or from any other source, you should ask their permission.

I think you might remember a could of years ago a man started a thread about his wife being diagnosed with MS and they were wondering if they should proceed with their plans to cruise. I responded to the post and told the story of my own diagnosis. (I am happy to say I have since become friends with his wife as a result of that thread.) As a result of that post I received literally a couple of dozen private messages, all wonderful and encouraging. Some people shared amazing stories of courage either of themselves, friends or family members. As a result of the thread, and the messages I received I did a blog post and I used quotes of a lot of the posters. Before doing so I contacted each person individually and asked their permission to quote them. Every one was happy to give their permission but if anyone would have asked me not to use their words I certainly would have respected that and would not have done so. It's a matter of respect.

Reefmagnet 14-02-2016 20:54

Re: Who "Owns" What?
Copyright belongs to the creator of the original content. Introduce "fair use" and things start to muddy up...

sanibel sailor 14-02-2016 20:55

Re: Who "Owns" What?
second one is easy- the woman always wins...:smile:

RainDog 14-02-2016 21:07

Re: Who "Owns" What?
In the first case, someone sends a private message to be private. You do not turn it public without permission of the author.

In the second case the receiver of the gift maintains all right over said gift.

valhalla360 14-02-2016 21:10

Re: Who "Owns" What?
#1: It is a "PRIVATE" message. Putting it out in public violates the intent of it being PRIVATE.

#2: If it was given as a gift....ownership was given unless you included a contractual clause that the gift was limited to the actual piece of paper. This is presuming it is a private picture never intended for commercial production (ie: if you got them a poster of their favorite boy band, it would be presumed that the gift was limited to that particular piece of paper.)

unclemack 14-02-2016 22:24

Re: Who "Owns" What?
Q1: Rules of forum? Don't know, don't care, superfluous in this regard.
Rules of good manners are enough for civilised people to know not to make private personal communications public.
Break that rule you're no better than a paparazzo, gutter press hack or celeb/footballer ex-boy/girlfriend.

Q2: If the photographer is a professional he or she will have entrenched views on copyright. If so, take another shot, grow up and apologise to partner.
If amateur, click another snap, grow up and apologise to partner.
Consider marriage counselling.

IMHO of course - divorced male so relationship advice at buyer's risk :redface:

DumnMad 14-02-2016 23:28

Re: Who "Owns" What?
Q 2; Think of real estate. Google earth takes photos of your house and uses it as they wish. They may not own the house but they do own the photo. House may even be shown from a poor angle or, with a dog defecating on the lawn(or something worse).

Sandibar 14-02-2016 23:50

Re: Who "Owns" What?
Q1: Around here, and I would think in Europe in general, the receiver of a letter can publish its content notwithstanding secrecy of correspondence rules. I assume this extends to electronic communications. Common decency may limit your options :). I have done it on one occasion on another forum, after receiving unsolicited PM abuse from a known troll.

Q2: I would assume copyright stays with the photographer. I know the US has some peculiar rules about the right to photograph other's property, which may complicate things. I would agree with Sanibel: "the woman always wins"

44'cruisingcat 14-02-2016 23:55

Re: Who "Owns" What?
IMO if someone sends me a letter I own it. It's in MY mailbox.

Same with a message. It's in MY inbox. I own it.

Generally I'd treat it the same as mail, and keep it private. But IMO it's my choice what I do with it.

If someone doesn't want their abuse aired publicly, don't send it.

JPA Cate 14-02-2016 23:56

Re: Who "Owns" What?
Thanks again, guys. This has been quite interesting. Many years ago, I had a friend whom I trusted, who shared intimate data from my letters with her ex, who then told my ex. I was not amused.


Tampabayfireman 15-02-2016 05:58

Re: Who "Owns" What?
Pirates used to say that two men can keep a secret if one is dead..., Now abridged to add "only if it wasn't send on the Internet.. ".
Keep in mind nothing sent over the Internet is truly private. Same as pictures sent to ex's that show up years later.

Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

Polux 15-02-2016 06:36

Re: Who "Owns" What?

Originally Posted by monte (Post 2046294)
Hi Ann. I believe the answer to #1 is that sharing of private messages publicly isn't allowed by the forum rules. ..

Even if it was not on the rules that is plain wrong. A private message is just that, private. If it is an insulting one threatening one it can be provided to the mods, as a reason to complaint, but that is all that should be done.

Regarding the second case, being that between partners it is a kind of odd question but on legal therms it seem clear to me....but complicated.

Photos when sold commercially can be sold in different ways:
1 - Just an authorization to use the photo commercially and the copyright continues to be owned by the one that took it.
2-Sold on a limited print edition and regarding that I am not sure about who owns the copyright but the one that took the photos cannot make more prints and the ones that have the prints cannot make copies of them.
3-Or sold on a unique print edition and in that case copies could only be made to replace the original print if that one deteriorates itself. The owner of the print cannot make more prints neither the one that took it.

The two later applies normally at photos as an art form took by great photographers and the price of those photos can be many thousands.

A gift is not different in essence of a sell in what regards rights but it will all depends on what therms the author intended to give that gift to Ann, in what regards the copyright of the photo.

Anyway if I had given formally a photo to someone, meaning not only giving a print as a nice gesture, but as a birthday present, I would consider that it would be unfair to make more printed copies of it. That regards the copyright but the intellectual property will always belong to the one that took the photo even if he had sold the copyright.

Not different than buying any art item by an author. You can own the art piece but not the intellectual property.

Regarding using the photo as avatar, well is a though question but I believe the solution is simple: Give that photo in digital format to someone that is skilled in digital photography and he can make of that image another one, that based on the first can be quite different, inverting the picture, cropping it and changing the colors. It can even turn in a nicer image if the guy is really god. Then you will have two images of the same boat, but quite different images.

Empty Pockets 15-02-2016 06:36

Re: Who "Owns" What?
Seems like 2 ways of asking the same question to me...

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